How to best deal with a difficult friend of my mother's?

I dealt with problems of moms friends not understanding moms needs. They were angry with me. I understand they do not understand and that is not good for my mom. I had to come to this: is it right and good for my mom, is it the right thing for my mom. Am I doing what is safe for my mom. Would she make these kind of decisions for me if I were a child again and she was the caring supervising adult. I came to make decisions on these things. any thing else too bad, sorry to hurt your feelings. Next time you hang up. It sounds to me her friend needs help herself and does not know it.

Sorry, don't think I would be so forgiving. Don't answer the door. Otherwise, disgustedtoo has a great suggestion.

"So I wanted to know if calling the police was a valid way of handling this if the friend does make a scene, and when the best time to do that would be."

If it were a real emergency, before you have anything in place and this woman is behaving irrationally, yes. If it is a case of her just showing up unannounced and hanging around despite being told to leave or not answering the door, please see my comment on 9/17 - you'll have to talk with the police about it to get the details needed, but a chat with them and a certified/return receipt letter to her/them would allow them to deal with it. Without that in place, they can still come and try to diffuse the situation, but if she (or anyone) and they are on notice, they have a bit more leverage.

Given that you say she might lose the ability to drive this all may be unnecessary (will someone take the car away?? Too often just telling someone they can't drive or had their license revoked doesn't stop them!) One can hope. If they do take the car, but leave her living in her place, perhaps once in a while your outings can include a stop by to visit her, kind of a check on her and some socializing. Just a suggestion, I know how busy caring for someone can be and how hard/painful getting tangled into another person's sob story can be. No worries if you decide to just stay away - she was (past tense) mom's friend, not yours, and you have enough responsibility now without adding to it.

"It's unfortunate how when you're a pushover, people "like" you more, but actually just use you and aren't really your friend, and then when you start setting boundaries, suddenly you're a "raging b*tch" or whatever, but such is life I guess. Finding the right amount of pushback and the right time to drop out of situation is the tricky part for me."

Yeah, as the saying goes, nice guys finish last! I can relate to being a pushover, but having had an ex who was a push-type, I learned how to get through it. There were still flashbacks, but at this point I think I'm good!

"Based on my experience, unfortunately it seems like explaining things and showing empathy and understanding isn't the way to go a lot of the time. It just gives people leverage that can be used against later."

Try anything once, twice if I don't think they understood, then I am done. Usually one says try anything once, twice if you like it, but I generally give the second attempt because sometimes they didn't listen/hear/understand the first time (ex was one of those.) If the second attempt works, play it by ear from there. If it doesn't, move on without this person.

YOU are the one in control and not this friend. Say no deal to everything you've mentioned here.

I would not be comfortable leaving your mother in this woman's care alone either. It would be like leaving a toddler with an irresponsible baby-sitter! One has to wonder why she even wants your mother to come along when she runs her "errands" if she isn't even staying with her?

Clearly when you are home you can just say no to her, your mother is not going out, if she shows up unannounced at your door or calls. If you are not home, the aides caring for your mom are working for you and your mother. They should be just like a babysitter, no one is allowed in the house when I am not at home. They should be instructed to not open the door and not let mom open the door or go out. They are, in effect, your proxy and should do the same as you would do in your stead.

Even the fish in Cat in the Hat was smart enough to get this (although it is 'She should...' and '...your daughter is not.')

“He should not be here, " said the fish in the pot. " he should not be here when your mother is not.”

― Dr. Seuss, The Cat in the Hat

If she persists, initially I would make a point to override what she is blathering about (preferably in person, so she can't hang up.) If she interrupts you, you can raise your voice a bit and DEMAND that she stop and listen, and explain simply that your mother needs supervision and this person can't/doesn't provide it. No need to go into any details, more than likely this will just float over her head anyway. Just NO, mom is not going out unless WE have plans. Offer to schedule (she MUST prearrange with you) outings that you and your mother might enjoy (lunch, either at your home or in a restaurant, walk in the park or a mall, trip to a museum or zoo, etc.) Make sure it fits YOUR schedule, not hers.

She is probably lonely, but also needs to be tamped down. She is NOT your responsibility and it is NOT your job (or your mother's) to "entertain" her. So long as she is willing to work with you on making plans, I would welcome her for your mother's sake, but not if she is going to lord anything over any of you! YOU are in charge!

If she refuses to work with you, then yes, you should speak with someone at the PD. There are rules as to what they can do if you want to prevent her from entering your home/taking your mother out (again, the aides should not be answering the door or allowing mom to do so.) I believe one of the first things you would have to do is send a certified, return receipt letter to her and the PD stating that she is not welcome at your place anymore. Might be a good idea to CC the aide company, in case there are substitutes sent. Only then can they do anything if she shows up and they are called. They may ask permission to enter your home, but so long as no one lets this woman in, they should have no need to come in. This is the extreme case. You should only proceed here if nothing else works.

Hopefully you can override her interruptions and perhaps get a tiny bit of understanding and agreement in place. Clearly she doesn't have a clue what mom's condition entails or how that impacts their "outings." It may take a few attempts, but you never know - the light might come on, it might be dim, but if it comes on, you've made progress!

(Just now had a thought... perhaps an outing for this woman's usual errands, but you are there too - then, painful as it might be, let mom get into that situation this woman leaves her in, BUT you are watching from close enough to intervene AND make sure this woman SEEs mom's fear, anxiety, discomfort. Sometimes it does take seeing to believe.)

You have legal responsibility/control of your mom?  They you just tell her "NO" - maybe she will be willing to stay with you and mom and visit nicely, well and good, but if she becomes argumentative, then I'd tell her she has to leave. If she won't, then call the police.
Sounds like this "friend" is not in mom's best interests.

Just tell the friend the excursions create anxious confusion after mom gets back home. She is welcome to visit with mom in the home but will no longer be able to leave the house with her due to so many things that can go wrong - the confusion, having a bathroom accident, needing 100% attention at all times so that she will not wander. If the friend becomes too overbearing about it, just explain she is welcome to visit in the home, but if she takes mom on an outing without your permission the visits will be limited to only a phone call.

I think I would take the friend aside and give her the rundown on Mom's condition, maybe embellishing just a tad. Tell her that Mom's condition has changed and it is a bit more difficult for her to be out and about. Tell her that Mom has to have constant supervision or she will wander off and could get hurt. That she sometimes "forgets" to pay for items and may walk out of the store, causing a scene. Insist that the friend bring a complete change of clothes, including undergarments for Mom because "sometimes she has accidents that can get quite messy." Encourage her to bring snacks and bottles of water because "Mom gets dehydrated easily or her sugar level drops suddenly and she may pass out." The more you discuss the things that can happen to Mom while on an outing and all the things required of the friend to either prevent or fix them, she may decide on her own that it just isn't worth the trouble and will be more amenable to coming over to visit Mom in the home rather than taking her out.

If the friend has cognitive issues, she is probably not safe by herself - let alone supervising an outing with your mom.

If the friend remembers to come over, I would explain that you are happy to accompany them on an outing - as long as it works for your schedule. Explain that mom's health requires constant, knowledgeable companionship. Explain that you are legally responsible for mom and you do not know this "friend's" abilities to allow mom to be with her alone.

Suggest plenty of other types of "visits" that you are comfortable with: meal at your home, short outing with everybody together, watching a movie in your home... If the friend balks, explain that you are not comfortable with leaving mom in her care... and she can get the "visits" as outlined or stick to phone calls.

WHOA! You know I read the summary before even reading that the FRIEND has COGNITIVE issues and I already had an issue with that friend. What a nightmare on wheels! So your mom gets distressed being abandoned in the big stores...gosh, doesn't that make us all remember losing mom when we were kids? And probably mom can't remember being scared/upset from the last adventure? IF she does, then she probably wouldn't want to go. My greatest fear is if your mom is left alone, that the friend could show up and take her! So my thoughts are, you're the one with the power/control as well you should be, i.e. you are POA and have legal authority. This boils down to friend taking mom against your consent being (am I being too dramatic or wrong legally?) abduction or kidnapping, which if I confirmed as accurate, I would not hesitate to inform this "Friend" of. If you ever see her and her vehicle again, I would note her car make/model and plate, just for safekeeping. I think I would inform the friend in advance and let her know you are POA and will not hesitate to call the police if she makes any attempts. Seems sadly like it is another episode of "no good deed goes unpunished." It was such a nice idea of you to put that call in for mom. Some days are so much harder than others to be a good daughter...

Sounds like Mom's 'friend' has no one else to go places with ( gee, I wonder why ) and that alone is something I would bring up to her. However, ARE you available to take your Mom out which it seems she likes.

I also want to share that a similar thing happened at my senior's building when a 73 year old lady without a car was more or less using another senior lady who had vision problems and a car and so the 73 year old drove them around. It would seem a nice thing except the 73 yo was pushy and always wanted to be on the run but the one with the car was more fragile and the 73 yo didn't really care. The day came when they pulled into the parking space here and the 73 yo just got her stuff and went inside leaving the more fragile and vision impaired one to fend for herself and she fell and broke her hip. Many weeks later after surgery and a long rehab the family of the vision impaired lady has stepped in and simply not allowing the 73 yo to take advantage of her like that.

I hope this situation works out quickly for your Mom's safety and she doesn't have to go through a broke hip or worse because of this pushy woman. God Bless!

You have some very good answers here. It seems to me you have a choice--either you tell this difficult "friend" that your mum cannot go out, or you go out with them and chaperone them. The latter seems to me the best bet in this situation, if that is possible for you. If the "friend" refuses for you to come, then you simply have to accept the difficult scene, welcoming her into the home, but saying your mum is not to leave alone with her.

This is clearly not a situation that is going to be resolved just by reading. However, there are two books that could be helpful. The first is only 50 pages, "Can I Tell You about Dementia" by Jude Welton (Jessica Kingsley Publishers). It would only cost a few dollars second hand from Abebooks, or a bit more from Amazon or the Publishers. You could give it to "the friend" after you had read it yourself and say you wanted her to understand your mum's condition. It might also help "the friend" deal with her own fears.

The second book is a much longer 300 page plus read, but easy to understand and very helpful: June Andrews, "Dementia: The One-Stop Guide: Practical advice for families, professionals and people living with dementia and Alzheimer's Disease." That title is misleading because Alzheimer's is the most prevalent form of dementia. The book is written for the United Kingdom, but I still think it has a great deal of helpful advice. The main reason to read books about dementia is that you can learn from the experience of others without having to undergo the experience yourself with inadequate understanding of how to proceed.

I hope this all works out. It does sound like you have to take the initiative or "the friend" will have a very destructive impact in some way on your mum's life.

All the best, with prayers

...I'm legally Responsible...Okay, So be the Straw Boss that you NOW Need to Be, Meet her at the door and tell her YOU ARE GOING or Tell her Mom cannot Go Alone from Home. Case Closed. You won' be hearing MUCH from this One, hun....

Birchtree I would file this under that heading "more decisions I have to make for mom's own good." I completely understand your plight. My mother's friends have for the most part all passed but her core group, the ones who used to get together on a regular basis are still around and suffering from their own varying degrees of cognition. Her one friend would call weekly to beg me to take mom to her house even after I told her my mother hasn't left the house in 2 years. Then she would get on the phone with my mother and ask her if she could come which of course my mother would say yes. Then she would hang up and be upset because she didn't know how she could go, didn't want to leave, etc, etc, etc. I finally got to the point where I didn't let her talk to her anymore. Did I feel bad? Yes but it was better than my mother obsessing over it.

The moment I read "....doesn't stay with her the whole time.." I was out. If your mother "needs constant supervision" then she doesn't get to leave the house with anyone but you (or a professional caregiver) because you are the only one who truly gets what that means.

While it sounds like this woman has plenty of her own challenges that doesn't change the fact that your mother needs constant supervision and she won't be able to provide that.

If you feel like you absolutely have to have this woman in your mothers life, invite her to your house for lunch this way you will be there. Just know if she is this much of a bully she may say push the issue of taking your mom out while she is there for lunch. Just hold your ground.

Good luck to you, these situations are so hard. You're doing a great job.

I would think of your Mom and how she would feel if she was younger and sharper. This was a friendship she cultivated, that endured because (at least some of) your mom’s efforts. Support your mom in trying to continue what she started, do it for her, even if this lady isn’t your type.

Ask to tag along, just to keep your mom safe, Sit back, let your Mom’s friend take the lead in the conversation and be a “fly on the wall.” If they need something, help them up- jump up to get that napkin, drink refill, steady them when walking on uneven sidewalk, carry a heavy package. Let your Mom have a swan song experience. Let her safely feel some “independence” and a slice of her former life. You may find that your Mom is a bit sharper and happier after these visits.

My mom had a similar friend. I didn’t understand how they were so close. When I started spending time with that friend, I grew to realize why mom loved her. She loved mom deeply. After mom died she told me hundreds of stories that filled my grieving soul with new memories of mom.

Now I visit Mom’s friend when I am In Mom’s town. She now is a widow living in AL. She welcomes me, and hugs me, and shares her precious stories again.

If this lady abandoned your Mom, you would be upset about that. Think of her side, like you, she is probably grieving these changes and it is natural for her to be in denial.

What on earth kind of friend is this. My God, the things I am reading on top of my own toxic situation. I wouldn't allow that friend of your mother's to take her anywhere by themselves. You are the family & she is not. Tell her how you want it to be for the well being of your mother. She has absolutely no say or control over your mother. Put you foot down or the answer is NO!!! Your first concern is the safety & well being of your mother. Good grief, Charlie Brown,(just kidden.) Being older & getting frightened is no picnic.

Maybe you could tell her that your mother is frightened in the big stores and she may wander off and get lost. So, she won't be going out with her anymore. You don;t have to totally shut her out, just certain things. She could come over to visit maybe. And you don't "just have to deal with it", she is your mother. You are concerned and have the right to be. Don't let this woman push you around.

Birchtree8, I am thinking calling up this friend whom your mom hadn't spoken to in awhile (and perhaps had even forgotten about?) was a mistake. Hindsight is definitely 20/20, but I don't think you or your mom need a volatile, self-centered person who likes to make scenes in your lives at this point.

My father had a difficult friend who sounds similar to your mom's friend. She had BPD and was prone to scenes, grudges, drama, and long, one-sided conversations. She also did have her good points, which I have to admit I did not really appreciate until she passed away suddenly last year. That was when the tragic impact of her personality disorder on her ability to relate to others really hit me. BPD and similar disorders are horribly sad and result in a lot of suffering.

This friend often expressed a wish for my father and me to meet with her in public at a park, theater event, art fair, local historic estate, etc. (Because of my father's recent disability, it wasn't possible for her to spend time with him anymore at these sorts of places without assistance from me or my sister.) I always politely smiled and changed the subject. I wasn't thrilled about supervising all her visits and phone calls, but I most definitely do not want to be in public with someone who gets into altercations. No.

Given your mom's health and the friend's past behavior, I think it's fine for you to let the friendship naturally fade away, or if you feel you must help to maintain it, set up and enforce strict boundaries that protect you and your mom.

The woman sounds lonely and may not have a loving, caring child like your mother has. But it doesn't excuse the way she spoke to you. I agree with Tot. Invite the friend to join your mother for an early lunch at a restaurant that is calm and quiet. Keep the outing short. The friend can get there and back herself. If that goes well, consider doing this once a month for your mother. Does your mother have other friends?

It is very nice of you to call the friend for your mother so that they can talk. I suggest that, when your mother is done talking with her friend, hang up the phone because, when your mother says "good-bye", that's the end of the conversation. If she calls back because she wants to talk to you, let it go to voicemail.

We have a slightly different situation - Mom is in AS and Sister and I have Guardianship. Mom's friend causes all sorts of issues, agitating Mom and believing all of her hallucinations. She tried to block us at both the emergency and permanent guardianship hearings. In our opinion, she hinders Mom's acceptance and integration into the AS because of all her negativity.

However, the lawyer has told us that if Mom asks to see her, we can not prevent her from visiting. The only way to do that is to document any damage she causes (and it is all indirect, so difficult) and go back to court. We can only block her visits if we can prove to the judge that she is doing Mom harm.

We CAN prevent her from taking Mom anywhere. The facility knows that there are only a handful of people specifically allowed to take her out and there are a couple who are specifically NOT allowed to take her out. Brother is one of them, along with this friend. Both just want to live off of Mom's estate. It's fairly easy at the AS because the doors are locked and those two don't have key fobs, so they have to ring the bell for staff to let them in or out.

We feel horrible that the AS staff has to deal with these two when they visit, especially when they bully and try to take her out or get privileged medical info (friend tries to get access), but it is part of the job.

It's tougher when your Mom is still at home or if you don't have a guardianship. But I would say that you still can set restrictions on visits. She isn't allowed in the house if you aren't there - just lock the doors. Tell home care staff not to let her in. She isn't allowed to take Mom anywhere without you (easier if you stick to not letting her in without you). If this friend is anything like my Mom's friend, she won't understand/care/listen to your explanations, so you have to set the boundaries and just stick to them as best you can. But I would be worried about trying to completely block her from visiting, even though I completely understand the desire to do so. Good luck and I wish I had better/more hopeful advice.

Morning: YOU are in charge of your Mom, and what you decide for your Mom, and who comes on your property.

Call the friend back and tell her she is not to come to your home for any reason, ever, and if she does, you will call the police, as she will be trespassing! If she does show up don’t answer door or converse - call the police.

Do you know BFF’s family? You may want to advise them what is going on.

You also should call the local PD and speak to an elder advocate. They can come to your home. They will also contact this friend. Your Mom’s BFF sounds like she has “issues” and may need serious intervention by both PD and her family.

Good luck and hang in there.

Another option.

Call the friend and tell her Mum cannot go out, but you would like to have her over for lunch or coffee at Mum’s.

That will allow a supervised visit.

Tell the woman that mom has incontinence of bowel. That just might take care of it, I know it would me.😉😣

I understand how you felt when the "friend" only wanted to tell you her problems and your concern about letting Mom go any where with her.
We had one of those friends. They stopped by and told us all about their problems and then left. six months later Luz, DW, was diagnosed with FTD and we never heard from them again until I sent them notice that Luz had passed away. That was just over three years after they were here. I have not spoken to them since.

Do what you think is right and know that I totally agree your decision the advice given here.

Best of luck to you and Mom.

The friend said she has some cognitive problems...she may not be able to make good choices now. You r the POA. Your job is to protect ur Mom. Just tell the aide who the woman is and the car she drives. To make sure the screen door is locked so she can't barge in. All the aide needs to say is that its not possible that the woman visit. If the woman says she is there to take Mom out, she says that she has gotten no such instructions to that effect from family. That because of that, she can't release ur Mom to this woman's care. If the woman won't leave tell the aide she can call the police.

You tell her what you told us. That Mom has had a decline. That your experience in the past shows that this friend has left her on her own; that you feel this is no longer safe. That, therefore, the three of you can go on an outing when you have time to do so, say a lunch, but you can no longer allow her to take Mom out alone. That you are now the one responsible and you cannot risk it.
I doubt she will try to PHYSICALLY intervene, but it may be necessary to ask her to leave if she makes a scene. Should it escalate at all you can tell her that she will no longer be welcome to come to the house if she cannot maintain civil discussion and gentle manner, as this, too, would be upsetting to her good friend.
Dependent on her own level of mental impairment it will go one way or the other. It IS your home. And you are correct; you now are responsible TO and FOR your Mom.
When she is rude do the grey rock thing. Answer briefly and gently and repetitively with only the gentle facts. Do not argue. Do not defend. Do not explain.
Just as a side note you say SUDDEN decline. When was the last urine test? You know how we jump on this one here. A bladder infection can cause sudden, profound and unpleasant behavior changes.
Good luck. Update us how it goes for you.

Let mom’s friend make a scene! Sounds like she would act crazy regardless.

Tell her NO and if she insists, call the police and have her "removed". Tell the facility that she is NOT to leave with your mother. If you have legal paperwork putting you in charge of your mother, the facility should have a copy of it for their records and that gives you leverage. If you don't, then you should contact a legal adviser and tell them of the situation and see if you can get the paperwork.