Not sure how to deal with this letter from Medicaid?

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Not sure how to deal with this letter from Medicaid?

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My mom died July 15, 2018. I received a letter from Medicaid stating they are trying to recover the $32,000.00 they paid out on Mom for services. They want to know from her estate (which is me) all about her assets. Which were none obviously because she qualifies for Medicaid. She only had $6,000.00 in life Insurance which I paid for over the years and had to drop a lot because Medicaid said it was to much. She received her SS, which August payment will be returned to Medicare, she owned no homes, no cars, no anything. If she did she wouldn’t qualify for Medicaid.

She had no will, no assets, nothing. So what do they expect? I have on my credit card where I paid for her cremation and she is still in my living room and some of her ashes went back to be buried with her parents. She was poor in material things but rich in love. I loved her more than anything. Please help me to understand what they want. Thank you...it has been a very rough month.

End of Life Medicaid

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Your mom must have been a wonderful person. Most likely, the person who sent you the letter is a clueless paper-shuffler. Follow the advice of the other posters and get with an elder law attorney promptly.

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Just a quick note about those who mentioned filial laws (requiring children to cover any parent medical debt) - this relates to medical debts, not Medicaid from what I learned in looking it up. There was a case pointed out in another thread, however the woman involved was NOT on Medicare, racked up medical debt (hospital I believe, but nothing to do with Medicaid) and then left the country without paying whatever insurance did not cover. The medical attempted recovery from her son (they were in a state with filial law) and initially the court found in favor of the son. They then sued and won, requiring him to pay.

This also generally applies IF they determine the child(ren) can afford it. Seems pretty obvious that you cannot get $ from anyone who does not have it! They can still sue, but if the child(ren) make bare minimum and have no assets, they are not likely to get anything.

So, even if you are in one of those states that have this filial law, DO NOT pay Medicaid ANYTHING from your own assets. She had nothing, they get nothing. As others have said, it is probably standard operating procedure, but you would think they would give you a little time to grieve before slapping you with this! Hopefully their "form" letter also includes a sympathy line, but it would surprise me if it doesn't.

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I don't need to deal with this as I fortunately do not live in your country [nor will I go there any time soon for this sort of reason] - this is your mom's debt - tell them to auction off the ashes otherwise they aren't getting any money from you unless you are stupid enough to bow to their demands -

Your mom is actually in debt to you for the cremation so you are first in line for any money because funeral expenses must be paid before anything else - this is to stop families from doing a bang up funeral & not being able to pay for it -

Tell medicare to stand in line & that is not your debt so don't pay for it - these gov't [& bank etc] people will try to tell you that you are responsible but most often legally you are not ............. if you pay you are a chump & deserve to be without that money - talk to a lawyer if they persist

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Since she had nothing. They get nothing. When in doubt call a lawyer. My company gives me 30 minutes with a lawyer for free. See if your company offers EAP-Employee Assistance Program.

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Oh, Ohmeowzer - I'm so very sorry for the loss of your mom, who sounds like she was a much loved, and loving, woman. With respect to your question, based on your description of her lack of assets, I'm wondering if Medicaid has some misinformation that led to a letter being generated. Truthfully, if it is at all possible, I would consult with an elder care attorney or your own attorney if you have one as dealing with bureaucractic stuff like this can be extremely draining, and you are grieving right now, which will only make this more of a challenge. As a first step, I might make a phone call to the person who generated the letter, or ask to speak with someone based on the case number assigned to it. It is possible you could actually find that the letter was in error and you wouldn't need the assistance of an attorney. Sending lots of prayers for comfort for you and your family as you go through the grieving process and positive thoughts that you can find a speedy resolution to the Medicaid mystery. Hugs and love to you.

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I don’t have any answers just wanted to say that I am sorry for the loss of your motherI hope things will get better there are slot of good answers on here. Good luck,Lynn

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Unless have experience in the field, consult an elder law attorney. This is not a do it yourself project. The attorney will know how to handle this. Doing it yourself without any background can get yourself into situations that can be avoided with a respected attorney familiar in the subject. And if you do proceed, make a mistake, it costs a lot more an attorney to fix the situation. Get help. You'll sleep better.

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Go to the nearest DHHS office and see a representative in person. They will help you. I have been several times. My mother is in the nursing home and we had to prove that we spent down all of her money and I had to keep records. I even went to an elder law attorney to make sure I was doing everything right. When a Medicaid patient passes away, they do go back and do a final check in what is called “ estate recovery” but it sounds like your Mom’s situation is cut and dried meaning very simple. That letter may just be a procedure that is required. The rep at Medicaid will help you. Don’t try to do it over the phone. You will just get “intake person” who does not know squat. I learned that quickly. You will have a good productive day if you go in person.

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I wish you the best through the rough times. Unfortunately I’m not much help and looking for the same answer too from someone who experienced similar situations or those that have rationale ideas.

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You may do yourself a big favor by hiring an elder law attorney.

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There is no court case yet, but discuss with Center on Aging referred Attorney if you can file Paupers Papers with the court. Perhaps it is worth leaving a credit card, or any legal matter. Ask about filing Paupers Papers on her behalf. Sounds like you are Executor,
If it goes to court, you have them ready! It is a court form that is easy to complete. Pauper papers, when accepted by the court, mean you, nor your attorney, at least not a probono Attorney, have to pay filing fees...for answer...for appearance...supeona...continuance...they charge for pretty much every piece of paper of form you must or might put in the record, even official form that you appeared in court. Adds up fast!

Last note my father, an attorney, taught me.
Get what you have...papers...list of what you don't have ( value $0)
Put it on a spreadsheet. Person working your case wants it off their desk to. Make their job easier!
Ex:
Bank balance,: $150
Life Insurance: $XXX, less $ ___ to cover funeral expenses..see line __
Car: None. $0
Home: None $0
_ note year sold! Clawback can go 5 years. State date of sale. If under 5 years, Buyers Name, Relationship to Mother.. they are looking to see if sold for less than market rate to a relative)
Pension: Company, $__
Annuities: None
Money Market: None
Stocks & Bonds:
Etc.

Add a page with address and contact information for any changes to Assets in past 5 years.

If anything was cashed out, list how used
- costs to prepare house for sale
- moving costs (to NH)
- Rx, OTC and supplies for Medical Care.
- Utility bills..till house sold.
You get the idea. Hope this helps.

On date mm/dd/year, ( mother's name), is a Pauper ( Owes More than she has)
List of assetts & their value that date.
List of expenses and debts on that date.
Balance is less than. $0.00
Bingo....use this with anyone chasing old debts, debt collector, and Medicaid.
Also, you said you paid premiums on Life Insurance Policy...Ask Elder Law Attorney if you need to produce those payment records
. Does this mean you owned the policy in your state? If so, not an Estate Assett.
Also $1,500 is allowed as an exclusion to cover funeral expenses. You likely paid much more, but that is limit they allow to set aside for funeral costs.

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There is no court case yet, but discuss with Center on Aging referred Attorney if you can file Paupers Papers with the court. Perhaps it is worth leaving a credit card, or any legal matter. Ask about filing Paupers Papers on her behalf. Sounds like you are Executor,
If it goes to court, you have them ready! It is a court form that is easy to complete.
On date mm/dd/year, ( mother's name), is a Pauper ( Owes More than she has)
List of assetts & their value that date.
List of expenses and debts on that date.
Balance is less than. $0.00
Bingo....use this with anyone chasing old debts, debt collector, and Medicaid.
Also, you said you paid premiums on Life Insurance Policy...Ask Elder Law Attorney if you need to produce those payment records
. Does this mean you owned the policy in your state? If so, not an Estate Assett.
Also $1,500 is allowed as an exclusion to cover funeral expenses. You likely paid much more, but that is limit they allow to set aside for funeral costs.

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Medicaid is kind of a loan. If there are any assets left at death, providing there is no surviving spouse, minor, or disabled children, then Medicaid will try to get what's left.

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Tell them the same thing you said here---she had no assets at all. If you think she did, feel free to do the research yourself----I am not going to do your job for free.

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This is standard operating procedure. It is done just in case there are any funds that were not known about at the time of filing for Medicaid that could have been used to cover her costs. It seems unlikely but there are instances where money was tucked away and was unknown to family and only comes to light after a death.

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There isn't anything to give them, Just say sorry but your s**t out of luck. Next thing go to an attorney with the letter just in case they want try to collect from anyone in the family. They might try to send a threateningly letter to a family member, just tell them to ignore them.

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I love the name - Ohmeowzer!
Sorry to hear about the Medicaid issue - Caregivers have enough stress without these types of headaches.
But, in regard to your issue with Medicaid here's my suggestion
- First off, they are just doing their job and what they want is a response from you - My suggestion - don't ignore their claim.
That being said, based on the information you've listed here it will probably be resolved in your favor. But I would suggest the following: get some legal advice.
Please note: I am not an attorney, but here is a list I
got from a workshop I attended of items you might gather and/or have on hand for future reference - make note whether she did or didn't have these
##SUGGESTED Itemized list of assets
(e.g., bank accounts, contents of safe-deposit boxes, vehicles, real estate), including current value and the individuals listed as owners, account holders and beneficiaries. Copies of all estate planning
documents, including wills, trusts and powers of attorney.
Copies of all real estate deeds.
Copies of recent income tax returns.
Life insurance policies, including their cash values.
Long-term care insurance policies or benefits booklets.
Health insurance policies or benefits booklets.
List of names, addresses and telephone
numbers of those involved in decision making,including family members, domestic partners and caregivers,
as well as financial planners and/or accountants
Prepare to meet with your lawyer
(an Elder law attorney) by gathering
all of the documents related to the assets of the person living with dementia.
##
The information was very helpful to me -Again, I'm not giving legal advice, I'm just sharing information shared with me when I had to go thru similar issues and if your situation is like mine was when my mom passed, away, I had to go back to work as I had tapped out my own retirement savings etc taking care of her so I was definitely not in any position to repay any services she had received from agencies.

So, my suggestion: Don't ignore the letter! - Get your records organized for a response as quickly as
possible.

In terms of getting any legal advice, I would first check with organizations like your local Office On Aging,
The Alzheimers Assoc (if that was her issue) Even local Senior Centers often have a list of referral services for these types of issues. In other words you want to check with as many agencies as possible to get their input to help you with your response. They are experts in these types of issues and can help or refer you to find the right sources of help.

Good Luck and God Bless!

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She just needs to go to DHHS in person. The representative you see in person will help. I tried this by phone and you get a front line intake person but if you drive on down to the nearest DHHS office, the rep will tell her exactly what they need and have a list. My Mom is in the nursing home. I learned this is the best way.

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This raises a number of questions for me. Please get expert advice. Each State is unique. I live in a very unique State. I thought the "look back" was 5 years. Has it changed? Why didn't Medicaid look back before they started paying. That was what I would expect. If they missed the $32000, that would be their mistake. In my State the nearest child is responsible for paying back if the parent can not. Scary!

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Great grandma - the 32k is what the States Medicaid program spent on Ohmeowzers mom. Her mom died last month and Medicaids Estate Recovery (MERP) system is trying to find out IF meowzers mom died with any assets so she would have an Estate that could have a recovery action attempted on.

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To avoid all this, I went to a lawyer, for low income people and we paid nothing, (Legal Aid Services) and had things titled in such a way where they could not take the home away from me if my mother died. What CJWilson said is true, but I am not a spouse, I am a daughter, so I went and had that checked out, so that I would be okay.

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You’ve been your mom’s live in caregiver for a while now, aren’t you? Then you can qualify for the caregiver exemption from any recovery action. There’s all sorts of exemptions besides caregiver, like low income heir, handicapped or disabled heir. FL is pretty pro property rights type of state for heirs. Your fortunate.

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Please contact an Aging and Disability Resource Center or might be called An Office On Aging, near you with your documents. This is an agency that will help you interpret information and even make appeals if necessary. God Bless!

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When someone passes Medicaid will try to recoup what they paid out. When a individual applies for Medicaid one house and one car is a protected asset. The individual can choose to keep one home and one car and still qualify for Medicaid. If they choose to sell their home then the proceeds have to been used to benefit the individual applying for Medicaid. If they choose to keep their home when they pass and Medicaid sends the letter that letter the family would have to sell their loved ones home and pay Medicaid what they spent out. There are exceptions to this, if the individual was married and the spouse lives in the home then this would not apply, if there is a disabled child this may not apply.

If she does not have any assets then you have nothing to worry about, the family is NOT responsible to pay her bills.

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I think 29 states have Filial Reaponsibility Laws where children can be on the hook for their parents’ medical debts. Thankfully, Texas isn’t one of those states.

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Question??? What if there is Miller Trust with a niece as beneficiaries?

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My understanding is to have a trust as compliant for Medicaid the beneficiary has to be the state first and foremost. Only when the state has recouped its costs will any funds left over go to whomever else is named beneficiary in the subsequent order named in trust.

Christine - a ? for you? Is there an actual Miller Trust done?
Or is it that Miller has been brought up by others as a way to deal with excess $ and still qualify for Medicaid?
If it’s the latter, you need to first see IF your state allows for a Miller. Not all do. Then IF your state allows for Miller, most have it that all income is paid into the Miller then the exact maximum allowed for income under Medicaid paid to the person and all the rest of the $ is also paid to the facility. So there’s no $ building up in the Miller.It all gets paid to the NH. It seems there are a few states that have the excess build and stay in the Miller trust account held by participating bank then when they die the $ escheats to the state. State totally in control of it both when alive and after death. States can do this with annuities too.

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Depends on when she entered Medicaid. They could've have done spot check to determine if she really qualified for Medicaid(one car, one house, less than $2500 a month in income). They go back 7 years.

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I'm so sorry for your loss. If there is nothing for them to attach the bill to, then they will probably be out of luck.

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I am so sorry you are having to go through all this on top of your loss. I have read similar posts on here and they say that the family is not responsible for their parents debts.

The letter that you received may be a formality, as already stated, but to put your mind at rest if this is not settled soon, please get in touch with a pro bono lawyer or Financial Aid. They are free. But, I am sure this can be sorted out.

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Best - I’ve found that pro bono clinics will usually not deal with anything probate other than reviewing a will or codicil to see if formatted properly for state laws and telling you where file pro se (if your state allows those). The glitch seems to be that as the debtor is deceased and in order for someone to have legal standing for matters of the deceased that is recognized by the court they need to be named in Letters Testamentary issued by probate court or be named in a Lineal Heirship Action filed in court. So you have have the $ to open probate to do these as a first step to have a docket to which one can file into. You have to have something with a PC case / docket # to file “standing” with. That has hard costs to do to start with. To me it’s why so often assets of the deceased fall to tax sale or end up as uncollected funds in State Treasury as family has no $ to do anything probate.

I’ve found that pro bono & law school clinics usually limit services to consumer issues (housing, rent to own disputes), child custody issues (as they can bring in CPS), juvenile justice.... stuff that more involves legal letter writing, research & filings at the courthouse (online filing). Not physically going to court. Probate judge expects you and your attorney to present themselves in person.

2 law schools in my city and both require 2Ls & 3Ls to do a set # of hours probono. 1 does it only through nonprofits & centered on juvenile justice. The other also does juvenile justice but has a bi-monthly walk in for consumer issues.

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Tell them the truth - there is nothing. They did this with us, too. I'm sitting there going: "What estate? She didn't have one"

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I do not have any advice. I just want to offer my condolences, I am so sorry for your pain. HUGS

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It is just the way to try to recover monies spent. It really is just a formality.

If you're concerned, call Medicaid and they will tell you the same thing. You are NOT responsible to repay that - and if you start, they'll never leave you alone.

Call Medicaid today.

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This is true - as it is for any collection - if you start paying, it's seen as an admission of responsibility. Totally agree - it's a formality.

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I'm sorry for your loss. Not only is it difficult to cope with such a terrible loss, you will find out how greedy and dirty the government is. Medicaid has an estate recovery law. I'm no lawyer, but I tend to think this is a blanket form letter. In other words, anything that goes into probate will end up as Medicaid's property. If nothing is going into probate, they can't recover. If she still has a bank account--if your name is also on there it won't go to probate so they can't get that.

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Greedy and dirty? I find that comment somewhat offensive. Our tax money pays for care for those who need it without requiring them to live off their family or loved ones or to even sell their home. I don't consider it greedy or dirty to request information or to recover some of that payment from the estate of the person we generously provided care for.
It's a painful time for those who miss their loved one, but it's just another step in the finalizing of their financial affairs.

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Thank you all for,the advice ,,I wrote him a letter and put a copy of mom’s funeral bill in the letter like they requested and told him she had nothing of value ..I didn’t send a copy of the bank statement but I will if I hear from them again wanting more info ,,,the only thing in her bank account is her social security that was August’s payment so they can take it back ,,I have to go,to the bank Friday with her death certificate to,show them that they have to return her social security then there will be $10.00 left ,,I was hoping social security would just take the payment back on their own but it looks like the bank will have to send it back ,,,ughhhhhh
that Medicaid letter I will look over igloo and see where it’s from I think merp is who sent it ,,,it’s so long to read and not a questionnaire..
i,have to work the next 3 days at the hospital and hopefully no letters from Medicaid or Medicare will come ..I’m afraid to go to the mailbox ,,,thank you all for your comments and prayers and hugs. I need all I can get ,,I miss Mom so much I cry myself to sleep ..it’s lonely without her and I always kissed her goodnight .,and good morning...and hugged her even when she was in a bad mood ,,at least she is with my sister who died 5 years ago suddenly of a heart attack ,,,I miss,them both. Anyway thank you all I couldn’t do it without you

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Dear one, Ohmeowzer, May God bless you with sweet reminders of your mom and sister that bring you joy and comfort!
You did the right thing with your reply. You do not need to fear anything. As some have said, it's just a formality that Medicaid has to follow up on. This is because Medicaid will pay for care even if a person owns a home, but once the person isn't going to go back to that house, the expectation is that the house will be sold to repay what they received from Medicaid. They will accept your explanation, and all will be well.

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