How to explain to my mother that she can't live with me forever?

Oh hon....I've started and stopped this reply half a dozen times. There is no gentle way to say this. Like recognizes like....and I recognize this...because my husband was raised by this....others have already said it. Your mother is a narcissist. She didn't raise you to be strong and independent. If she had, she would have raised you to stand up for yourself, even to her. What she did is raise you to stand up to others for her, to make sure that she was always in the protective circle.

You don't say a lot about your parents' relationship-only that they are still married but living apart. But it doesn't sound like they are very involved in a relationship with each other. I saw that a lot with my ILs. MIL, once my DH and SIL were out of the house, did her absolute level best to avoid my narcissistic FIL at all cost. She was only around him if she had to be. When MIL passed away a number of years ago, FIL's narcissistic behavior went into overdrive. And he zeroed in on his kids - who up until that point had been some what sheltered from him for a number of years except for the occasional visit.

For what it is worth, my dh and his sister literally have a mental block on a lot of their childhood - with a very strong lock on it. We pick at threads a lot and discover things periodically. But at the crux is that he spent YEARS basically grooming them to never tell him no. To be afraid to upset him, to fear him. To worry more about making him yell and making him angry than what other people would consider far more serious reactions. I think most people in 'normal' relationships with their parents don't want to disappoint or upset their parents. But this goes way beyond that. It's almost pathological - the need to please him. And there is never the corresponding positive feedback response that should come with pleasing him. No thank you. No "I'm proud of you". It is expected behavior.
He yells, screams, belittles, calls names, never praises, everything is all about him all of the time.

You have children. I'm going to gently suggest that you really take a good look at her behavior. We were lucky in some ways in regards to our children. They were sheltered from a lot of this behavior because MIL had a tight rein on FIL when the grands were younger. When she passed, his true self came out. And I will tell you that every single one of the grands have walked away from him and will not have anything to do with him. They call him toxic.

You mention that there are fun times, and then it gets hard. And that this is a yo-yo situation. Honestly, we've seen that with FIL too. Showtime - when he is on - he can put up a good front. But he is 27 years older than your mother. As the years go by, it gets harder and harder for him to keep up the front. We see way less of the good times and a lot more of the angry, frustrated, unhappy side.

If I'm wrong here, I'm wrong. But if I'm right, you need to give serious consideration to your living situation and get it under control soon. Your sister is ok with both of them living with her. Maybe not the best idea either, but it is an option that works and she is ok with. Your mom isn't perhaps because all of the attention isn't focused on her? But you have a full plate and have expressed that you don't have the bandwidth.

I honestly don't understand why your mom needs care. I haven't seen where she has dementia or any reason she needs physical care. Just that she doesn't want to work anymore and expects you to provide her care. My SIL is almost 60 and is providing full time care for my FIL!! Your mother is not old!! VERY far from it. My mother is a good number of years older than your mother and providing care for my grandmother! It sounds to me as if your mother is taking advantage!

Is there something cultural we are missing? What is the key that we are missing to unlock this puzzle?

AK thanks for the fill in.

I am now wondering if your story can be rescripted?

It was 'how do I explain to my Mother' etc which opened a chapter on how hard it is to say no to Mom.

There are big issues here to why your Mother is not thriving in an adult independent way.
1. unfinished divorce
2. no stable address
3. lost purpose
These are huge barriers.

The story could now turn to how you & sister help Mother overcome those barriers.

To find a good lawyer so she can finalise the divorce. Once she is freed & has her finances sorted out, then she can take steps towards a new home - for herself. A new purpose may take a while to discover. No longer a wife she will need to redefine herself. She choose to leave the workforce & be a Grandmother. But the reality of her situation may be she will need to work part-time. It would be good anyway: socially, mentally, financially & help her adjust to a new area.

Mother has been in transition staying with you & sister. But hopefully she can restart her story & it becomes a tale of a fresh start.

Like a butterfly 🦋

AK, I think you and your family members are being manipulated up the wazoo, or maybe you are playing us for fools.

In any event, take actions as recommended below.

Best to you all.

Oh come on!

She told your sister SHE had to foot the bill for the divorce?

Such a load of cr@p.

You ALL need to understand that your mom is playing you.

AK- It's better to be motherless than to have a mother like yours.

If you truly want to improve your situation, first and foremost, you have to rethink and change your relationship with your mother.

Right now, you think and behave as:

a frightened little girl
who is afraid of her mother's disapproval, and
that her mother will be mad at her, so
she'd better tiptoe around her mother and be gentle, and
puts up with whatever and however outrageous mother's demands are

You need to change the above to:

I am an adult deserving of respect from anyone including my mother.
I am a mother who needs to protect my child.
I am a wife who needs to put my man first.
My first priority is to protect myself, my family and marriage.
I will do whatever is needed to carry out my first priority.
I have the courage to withstand anyone's disapproval or push back.

How do you change from A to B? That depends how badly you want the change. If you want it badly enough, you will take the many good advice that others have offered you. And I really hope you do before YOU allow your mother to destroy you, your family and your marriage.

If you don’t want to lose your husband, she has to find herself another place to live. She is too demanding. She has a lot of problems you are unable to help her with. You have a family...they should come first. I used to babysit for my nephews & brought them toys ...wouldn’t think of asking for $$$$ in return for babysitting...

.Maybe an independent living apt? Don’t ask her..:tell her! Set up appointment to tour...it will only get worse as she sounds jealous of any happiness you have & wants to destroy it. Good luck & hugs 🤗

Did I read somewhere here that Mom didn't live with the Father? (I can't find it). Was this a long ago separation or divorce?

🐘
Or the elephant in the room, Mom actually wants to leave Dad & is running away. To live with daughters to avoid actualyl officially leaving her marriage?

I apologize in advance if way way off here!

But if right... Time for a heart to heart with Mom. She needs to take responsibility for herself regarding her marriage. Go or stay. But not running away or denial.

You may have to just go ahead and legally evict her from your house.
No one has to put up with what you're putting up with regardless of what age someone is.
Would mom have jumped through hoops or even mildly tolerated this kind of entitled behavior and unreasonable demands from you and your sister when you were kids? My guess is OH, HELL NO!
My guess is she would have had you and your packed bags pushed out the door on your 18th birthday if you even attempted behavior like this with her.
Don't tolerate it from her either. Stop enabling her freeloading and allowing her to treat you and your home with such blatant disregard. You don't need her to watch your kids if it means you are now beholden to her in some way. She expects pay to babysit? You can pay someone else to do that, and let her know this. Throw her out. Let her know that she gets 30 days (one month) to find another living arrangement or you will start the legal eviction process. You or your young family do not need this burden in your life from a 60 year old. She's too young to start playing that card with her adult children.
Then talk to your father. Since they are still legally married, he has some responsibility for her.

I posted earlier but I have one last thing to tell you.

DO NOT allow her to emotionally blackmail you regarding your children. Oh, no! That would be a low blow.

So if she threatens you with that she will no longer be able to see the kids because you are keeping them from her, tell her straight out that you are not falling for that nonsense!

Do you believe in the tooth fairy as well? Your fantasy is that you are going to tell her ‘gently’, and she is going to understand and agree. You will magically find a way to explain without making her angry. ‘Hopefully’ she will then move out voluntarily, and everything will be lovely.

None of this is likely to happen, not even remotely likely. Your mother has it organised the way she likes it, and why should she want to change? If you force it, she will be hurt, angry, then repentant …..and then back to the beginning again.

You have no options besides:
1) Giving away the next 30 years and probably your marriage too. Or
2) Force her to go ASAP (I wouldn’t wait til June, too much can happen in the meantime, including fake injuries). Put up with the hurt, anger, blah blah blah. You know it’s going to happen, so toughen up in advance.

Remove all her stuff from your house, and just wait until things calm down and she can see the grandchildren with more reasonable expectations. When she is living somewhere else, things WILL change. Living with Sis is not a good answer, because it isn’t permanent, and your mother needs a new HOME.

I am going to do my very best to be polite and respectful, even though your mom’s behavior is really annoying!

You are stressed out and I don’t wish to add to your stress.

I respect everyone as a human being, including your mom even though she has lost touch with reality. I do not respect her character.

You are extremely kind. As a matter of fact, too kind!

Your mom sees your kindness for weakness and clearly has used this for an opportunity to take advantage of you.

I agree with all of the other posters on your thread. Mom has got to go! Pronto! Give her a cut off time and make it short! Very short!!!

Please listen to Barb about not caring if she gets mad. She is going to get her feathers ruffled! So what! It can’t be helped.

Why on earth does she feel that you owe her? It was her responsibility to raise you after giving birth to you.

A more important question is, ‘Why do YOU feel as if you have had to accept her into YOUR home?’

She isn’t old and isn’t sick. She may have some good qualities but overall she is lazy, feels entitled, is an interfering mom and looking for a free ride.

You deserve better than the treatment she gives you.

Who do you know that hasn’t had stress on their job at some point in time? That’s part of life. I figured that out with my very first job!

Please don’t enable her any longer. You aren’t helping her and you are prolonging your agony.

Everyone who posted on your page wants the best for you, your husband and children.

You know what is best. You’re smart. You just don’t want to hear her flack. Trust me, I understand. The circumstances are entirely different but I gave into my mom when I didn’t want to hear flack back from her. Guess what? I paid too big of a price for it.

So let me give you an important piece of advice, like someone very close to me once said. “Pay now or pay later. If you pay later, you will pay a much higher price!” Oh, if I had only listened to that wise person years ago, I would have saved myself and others years of misery!

So, pay the very small price of hearing her complain now OR pay the bigger price of being utterly miserable for who knows how long if you keep her in your home, because she will not voluntarily leave on her own.

Wishing you all the best. Come back soon with an update about you telling her to leave. Cry on our shoulders when she hurts your feelings but also remember that we will be here to comfort you.

Take care.

Good to hear AK.

Just be aware of traps on the path.

1. Time trap: June will never come. Stalls, delays, job fell through, oops I have a health crises & now I will sit like a queen on my throne (in your house).

2. Sibling trap "I've had enough so YOU have to take her now". Nope. Your refusal does not equal sister's acceptance & vice versa. Each sibling decides for themself.

3. Emotional trap "If you loved me..." Do not fall for that faff. I loved my Grandmothers very very much. I did not need to live with them 24/7 to prove it.

4. The Doll House trap: where Mother lives in her own little home but is just playing house. You & sis are have taken on all the responsibly (bills, maintenence, groceries).

If Mother really isn't capable of independence, be through cognitive issues, physical needs, mental health or even personality then AL is a good option for her. Be warned that needy folk can still be needy wherever they are!

Good luck ☺️ (& get yourself a copy of that Boundaries book before June).

Thank you all for the response. My husband is very nice and since his mom is MIA, I guess he just enjoys having a mother figure around often. Even though
she gets on his nerve, thanks to covid he can hid in his office/man cave all day and never have to interact with her until later in the evening. I on the other hand, have to entertain her or speak with her all day.
I will talk to her because I do think she is a great grandma but I do need my space. And she knows I try really hard not to sound rude but I really just want space. So I will give her a time line and I will tell my sister she needs to figure out her situation with our parents because she knows they are not on good terms and my dad works and has his own place and I feel he’s just wanting to move in to start drama( they have a long history of A horrible marriage but won’t divorce).
I will give her until June and hopefully she can either find a part time job or move back with my sister.

Your mom's not independent at all, she's a narcissist who's got you stuck in a childhood parent/child dynamic, and...maybe a bit of a codependent relationship with her, or you wouldn't be supporting her gambling habit or turning your family's lives upside down to accommodate her. It doesn't seem like you're prioritising your family's needs over hers. A healthy parent/child relationship grows and adjusts its boundaries and recognizes that other relationships will take priority when you become an adult.
Narcissists are tough...
You can try to get her out again, but you and hubby need to tag team her and support each other when she boomerangs back. Maybe not talk with her about it AT ALL unless you're both there?
I really would suggest that you talk this through with a counselor/therapist, who will be able to help you to be more comfortable with your mom's anger and disapproval. You don't want to go on like this, do you? They can work with you so you can identify when she tries to manipulate you and how to best handle it. Hopefully she can move forward into a more mutually respectful relationship with you. You can only be responsible for your own actions, not hers. You sound like a nice person--If she chooses to be a jerk when you put your foot down then that's on her, and her loss. Your mom will know how to push your buttons, which is why a counselor is so helpful--the third party voice of reason that tells you, ''No, you're not wrong to see or do things this way, you're absolutely right!''
You can do it!

Castles don't do well with two Queens. Take yours back. Mother needs her own castle.

AK, I truly believe that the ability to withstand a parents' anger is one of the hallmarks of being an adult.

So she gets mad. So what?

What is the downside to her being angry?

Your mother very effectively manipulating you. Would you like some help in managing this situation?

There is a book called Boundries by Townsend and Cloud. It is a great place to start.

"Because if I tell her any other way [than gently] she gets so mad. I just want her to understand not be mad."

Sweetheart, your mother DOES understand. She understands that you are defying her. Gently or downright brutally, in whatever way you try to tell her that you are not going to sacrifice everything you have to her wants and whims, she is going to be mad and she is going to try to hurt and frighten you. As far as she's concerned, your choice is between eager obedience or death-to-her.

Fortunately, she is not the world's only decision-maker; and although she can hurt you emotionally and frighten you in various ways, you are not helpless and you can defend yourself very effectively without hurting her back. The fact that she doesn't recognise the myriad alternative choices available to you does not make those choices any less possible. But boy! - do you have a way to go.

Has anyone ever talked about boundaries to you?

Sheesh.

What exactly do you love about your mother? It's certainly a tribute to your worth as a daughter that you do love her, despite everything.

Going only on what you've said, and of course not knowing the lady, I have to say that she sounds as mad as a hatter.

Have you consulted your other, involved and less involved family members about this?

Just when I think I've read it all on this forum, someone else comes along with a story that makes me shake my head in disbelief. I'm not even sure where to begin, but I guess I will start with the fact that both you and your sister were sucked into paying your mom to live you both. Really???? Because "work was too stressful for her," so she now expects you both to supply her with an income. Surely you see how unhealthy and enabling that is. She has made the choice to not work, and so she must now live with that choice without her children having to disrupt their finances to support her.
You are a grown woman, with a husband and children, and a life of your own. You must now act like the adult and put mom in her place and quit allowing her to run your life. I'm shocked your husband has put up with it this long. I can't imagine he will much longer though. You MUST put your husband and children first, and tell your mom that you're taking your life back, and that it doesn't include her living with you. She's going to have to figure out how to live her life on her own or with your dad, and with no financial help from you or your sister. She's only 60 years old, for crying out loud. That is young by today's standards. You best nip this nonsense now, as she could live for another 40 years, and surely you don't want to deal with this for that many more years do you? Only you can make the changes necessary in this dysfunctional situation, and I hope for your husband and children's sake you will. Best wishes.

She quit working because it was too stressful?! My work is stressful too but I like to eat and have a home, so I go to work. She should too, until she is able to retire and live on her own or is no longer physically able to work. It's not your fault that she is lazy.

She says you owe her? Haha. She owes YOU to not drain your family (and money) dry. She's the boss right now and she knows it.

Telling her she "can't live here forever" is too soft an approach. You will have to give a firm date. No matter how you phrase it, telling her she must leave won't go over well.

She is bossy and manipulative. Once she sees this is for real, she will start what I call the 'sweet old lady act'. She's just a sweet, sad, helpless little old lady who only wants to help! And oh, what a hard life she's had, because she had to raise children. You owe her everything for such a horrible burden! Millions of people have raised children, but surely she had the worst time of it in all history of motherhood.

Be ready for whatever she throws at you. Do not argue, do not debate, do not work out some kind of deal. She'll go to any length to guilt trip and make you feel like dirt. You can't give in if you want to save your own family.

Gentle? GENTLE??????

Why on earth do you think you should be gentle to someone with no boundaries who is attempting to run and ruin your life and your marriage?

"Mom, you will have to make arrangements to live elsewhere starting June 1. No, I will not discuss this. Crying and screaming will not change my mind".

Your first mistake is calling your mother 'independent'. She's anything BUT independent. She's what's known as a Moocher and taking huge advantage of you.

She needs to be evicted immediately.

The gravy train needs to dry up at once.

Not one thin dime will mother be receiving from you, ever again, for anything.

I am 63 years old myself. The very THOUGHT of doing to my children what your mother is doing to her children leaves me nauseous. It's wrong at every single level.

The time for being 'gentle' with mother has long passed. In fact, you are doing her a disservice by pandering to her this way. It's time mommy stand on her own two feet now & suck it up, like the rest of the adults in the world, get a job, make money, and use it as she sees fit without expecting her children to finance her life!

Wishing you the best of luck evicting your mother & taking your life back! You deserve it, she deserves no more of your kindness.

You give her a date that she will be leaving.

You do not give her one cent more. Tell her that, too.

You do not explain. You have done that already. That has gotten you nowhere.

She will be angry. You will live through it, and come out the other side.

Save your marriage and your sanity.

Do it now, or you will do it down the road, when it will have gotten worse.

Your choice.

I am amazed it is taking you this long to simply say no. Given all you have put up with it is difficult for me to even begin to imagine your telling her she cannot live with you forever.
BUT, should you decide to "try", here is my advice.
Once you let someone into your home it is a good deal more difficult to remove them. I surely do wish you luck. And I would forget about "gently" with this woman; clearly THAT won't work. She steamrolls "gently" just for fun. You and your husband need to sit down, decide how much time you will give her to arrange other living conditions, and then TELL HER. Tell her at the beginning that it isn't open to argument or discussion, and that you understand she will be very unhappy about your decision, but that your decision will NOT change.
You may have to ultimately evict her from your home. But that would be the "kind" thing; I myself would use a forklift.
Wishing you luck.

You say "independent 60yr old" did you mean dependent? Because Mom is far from independent. IMO there has been a mental break if someone at the age of 56 thinks its OK to quit a job and have her daughters support her. Since she is still married to Dad, he should be supporting her not her children. Did Mom have signs like this before she quit work? Is there some cultural thing involved.

You are not wrong to set boundries. I hate the word "owe". Your Mom and Dad chose to have children. They chose to sacrifice. Once you turned 18, they owed you nothing and you owed them nothing but to be the best person you can be. If you chose to care for them in anyway, thats your choice. Not everyones childhood is fine and dandy so there are some parents we need to walk away from.

Your Mom has made a choice to stop working which will effect her Social Security which she can start getting 75% of when she is 62. Medicare at 65. Till then she is Dads responsibility. You need to set those Boundries. As its said alot on this forum "No" is a complete sentence. "Sorry Mom I love you, but you cannot come live at my house. It just doesn't work. You take over like it is your home but its not its ours. My home Mom. My rules. And I cannot afford to give you any more money. You get it out of Dad or you find a job," She needs to see her reasoning is not normal.

If you don't put ur foot down now, it will only get worse. Your mistake was moving closer. I really don't think your Mom should be around your kids too often. I really feel she needs a good physical with labs. May be a CT scan to rule out Dementia or even a stroke if this is new behaviour. Your Mom is not old. I have friends who both are 72 holding down jobs. Lots of people are waiting till 70 to collect SS because they get 135% then.

Goid luck and please come back to tell us how things work out.

Dearest mommy, wouldn't we all love to live the life of riley? However, that is just fantasy and the reality is that you need to go be a big girl and live your life so that I can live mine.

I know that you think that you have some entitlement from me and I am sorry that you feel that way, because you are NOT entitled to hijack my life. So we expect that you will be gone by the (insert date).

We look forward to enjoying family gatherings and holidays with you and wish you all the best.

Love,
your grown woman daughter.

You need to stop being a child with her. You are a wife and a mother, you need to get over feeling like she is your boss. You have every right to move her out and put boundaries in place. If she chooses to throw a tantrum, then let her but, it shouldn't change anything for you.

I am thinking that she takes the cake for audacity.

Time to stand up and put your foot down with this manipulative, petty woman.

Oh, honey.

Mom has GOT.TO.GO.
Like, yesterday.

You're gonna 'nice' yourself out of a marriage and home.

Sounds like she's a tad narcissitic---all right, a LOT.

How do you solve this? You invite her to leave and move in with sis. I wouldn't even couch this discussion wrapped in cotton gauze--she won't 'get it'.

Tell her what you've told us. She's NOT the owner of the home. She's NOT the parents of your kiddoes. She's NOT got a voice in what your place looks like or how it's run.

Be kind, but firm. Ask her to take a weekend to pack and then she needs to leave.

She's 60???? She could live 35 more years! My mother has lived with my YB for 26 years and it has been alternatively a nightmare and a worse nightmare. Some families can live together and it's a lovely thing. Sounds like that's not your deal.

Tell sis that mom is coming back to her place. So what if she doesn't want to see your dad! She should have planned better. That's not your fault.

And QUIT GIVING HER GAMBLING MONEY!!! You want to throw money away, take it outside in a brisk wind and let it go. That's gambling with the same outcome. She's not winning and repaying you, right?

Stop being her enabler, it will get worse over time. You can't change her, but you can change you.

BTW--NOBODY who responds to your question is going to think that this (mom living with and mooching off you) is a good thing.

Think about that. You already know the answer don't you?