Any ideas on how to tame down manipulation?
I was told yesterday by someone who worked in Geriatics they thought my Father is not that ill he is faking it and manipulating. He started in again last night. It seems to me that if he cannot get to me he get's to my Son.
My Son, who is 10 is seeing this. When My Father is givien a small task he seems to make an issue out of it. Last night he was asked to cook a small meal for my Son. HE seemed in a good mood. HE will offer my Son noodles or pancakes regardless of what is here. It is not all the time, but at least once a week. HE will then say there is nothign else to cook (even if there is). HE then tries to argue over mundane things and my Son is picking this up.
My SOn's anxiety ahs been way high and upon talkign to my Dad several times abotu the elevated voice, the yelling, and the arguing, he continues. I have tried to purchase items that my Son can cook for himslef but now we are out.
IT seems to me that if my Dad does nto want to do soemthing he creates an issue. HE did say last night he wanted to cook but coudlnt' see items in the Pantry and insited (i was nauseas as hecK) he coudl nto see any food. HE took over and hour and a half and got up out of his chair once, to see what there was and offered my Son, food he did not eat. IT then reverted to, "I am nto getting up you get up and SHOW ME." I knew the game and refused.
The pantry was stocked. To try and minimize my SOns' stress I offered him and omelet. Dad had ate all the margarine and instead of getting more or writing it down on a list as I had suggested, we were out. That seems to happen more than not. HE will eat something, finish it off and not write it down. If he does write it down he does not show me, or does not pick it up.
I do not think the issue is food. I think my Father want's me responsible for everything. HE wants to sit and be fed. HE also neglects personal affairs (financial and doctoral) until I do them. The majority of the day he sits. HE does nto handle bills. HE does not handle personal affairs. I do not want to enable.
If my Son wasn't' present, I could handle these things in a different manner. IT seems when my Son is home that is when my Father makes waves. The majority of the day (when my Son is not home) he does not do this.
I am trying to figure out how to minimize my Son's exposure without having to leave the home as my SOn needs his routine. My Fahter has now gone to extremes with purposely making messes, not picking them up, and instigating arguments.
I have asked him to please go to the Library at night. I am concerned about my Son's anxiety. My Son has even talked to my Dad about behaviors and how upset he get's and last night my Son actually asked my Father to stop and he carried on.
I think the woman who worked in Geriatrics. who has heard the bulk of what my Father does believes it is more manipulation as he is miserable and wants to bring every one else down. He has been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder.
Does anyone have any coping skills that I can use for myself or to minimize the anxiety my Son has over my Father's behavior without having to live in a separate residences?
I have tried ignoring my Father, but it seems he just does other things to get a response out of me or it seems to create an argument. I cannot grasp the fact that my Father wants to upset my Son. I do not get it.
Please try and be a little gentle on responses as at this point I am extremely upset. I think my Son comes home from school expecting to get upset. This concerns me greatly.
On another note; My Father promised my Son he would not behave in the certain manners (yelling, fighting, etc.) However he continues to do so. I am aware it takes two to argue, so I try my best to bite my tongue. However the smallest things that I say lead into a debate when my Father is upset. I try very hard not to debate back (around my Son) and I think my Dad knows this and makes every effort to get me to respond.
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A couple of years ago, my cousin broke her foot. I went to stay with her and care for her and run her household. There were home care aids that came in almost every week day. They helped with bathing, therapy, vital checks, etc. I spoke them a lot about some of her behavior. She had temper tantrums, refused to bath at times, refused to eat well, slept too much, and other behavior. They thought she was lazy and manipulative. It was early dementia. I wish I had known then.
I would get some answers and not presume he's being willful. It may be his depression or something more. I'd investigate and keep a close watch.
My Dad [93] doesn't even know how to boil water. Mom is trying to teach him some basics in the kitchen, but that ship has sailed when it comes to Dad wanting to learn. Mom should have started that 30 years ago when he first retired. Dad would be happy if he had toast and cereal for every meal.
Speaking of cereal, nothing wrong with grandpa serving grandson some cereal for dinner... if it is good enough for breakfast before school, it's good enough to serve after school :)
What you can do is teach your son that chores are equal in today's world, but those same chores weren't equal back when your Dad was younger.
What was the role of the person who works in geriatrics? A doctor? The receptionist? A psychiatric nurse? The maintenance man? And does this person have first-hand exposure to your father, or only going by things you have said?
Maybe your father is "faking it" but if I had $2 for every person with dementia who is assumed to be faking it I'd be fully secure in my retirement. (Believe me, I'm not.)
Dad has Major Depressive Disorder and possibly Dementia (I can't remember ... has that been diagnosed or just suspected?) This is Not Your Fault. You can, perhaps, ensure that he is getting appropriate treatment for his disorders, but you cannot cure them.
Dad MAY be exploiting his conditions and manipulating you. This is Not Your Fault. You cannot control his behavior. You can control yours. And you can exert great influence on your son's environment.
Whether your father is behaving the way he is because his brain is damaged or because he is manipulative (or he is manipulative because his brain is damaged), the situation in your home is not good for or fair to your son. So it needs to be corrected, regardless of its cause. Your first responsibility (in my opinion) is to your son.
You cannot control your dad's behavior. But you can make decisions about your own behavior. Is the house you share his or yours? One option is for you and your son to move out, or to insist that Dad moves out. Changes create upheavals in routines and that can be upsetting for a time. But you and your son will get past them.
This is Not Your Fault. It is not within your power to cure the damage in your father's brain, or to fix his inappropriate behavior.
Your father probably isn't up to doing chores, hasn't had to do chores most of his life if he was married and his wife took care of him and all his needs. There is the saying about how difficult it is to teach an old dog new tricks. I may apply here. Plus he is aging, he may not feel his best each day.If he is not taking the initiative to help, ask yourself is it worth the effort and frustration to make him do chores? Probably not.
You do have a 10 yr old son, if he and you are on your own, I would train him for specific chores. If he gets an allowance, there can be specific tasks he performs daily to "earn" it. I would watch chores which might be dangerous but cooking small items in a microwave should be a task he can do. If you are working, I always used a crockpot to have a meal ready when I got home and I then had time to enjoy a dinner with my aging widower father.
My father did like to cook but I didn't want to wait on his meal completion each day, the elderly do work at a slower pace ( I found it frustrating at times) but he liked helping season a crockpot dish and he felt he had "cooked the meal"--both of us were happy.
I think your father is slowing down, and feeling needy wants time to talk to you etc so he gets it by engaging you in ways that annoy you. I don't think it is a planned manipulation. As their lives change (get smaller) they feel out of control and it scares them. My dad responded better when reassured that he was safe and things would be alright. Hugs helped too.
Don't let the Geriatric types poison your dad and your relationship. They are quick to blame the elderly for everything, claim every senior has dementia. It comes from the fact that if your "client" complains of poor or lack of care, well
he has dementia--doesn't know what he is saying etc. They need to be called out for their shoot from the lip labeling of the elderly. Most of it is self serving.
Good luck.
Second, in my case my dad was ranting and yelling 24x7 in every waking moment, and he wasn't sleeping much. He was always kinda like that, but it became non stop. His Opthamologist recommended a neurologist and I told him the neurologist would help him with the arthritis pain so he would go ( he wouldn't have gone to a psychiatrist which is for crazy people and he's not crazy) The neurologist prescribed an anti psychotic which helped with the yelling and screaming, the accusations and subdued the paranoia but he still had 'episodes'. After a year on it, I got him to,a psychiatrist who prescribed an anti depressant also. His behavior has improved immensely.
The five months I took care of him 24x7 were the worst in my life, bar none, including the death of my mother. I couldn't sleep, my digestion tanked, I was crying all the time, I was sick to my stomach with dread every time I heard him wake up. I simply could not endure that type of behavior. Living in an environment like that is too stressful. You have to live to raise your son,--you have to take care of yourself and him first.
There are alternatives to nursing homes. There are group homes and if you can find them, private homes that are even cheaper. My father is in a private home and they are excellent with him. When one of his tantrums starts they drop everything and cajole and cater to him and baby him until he calms down.
I learned from several posts here and from Internet research that some kinds of behavior modification work. When he started ranting I would look away. If he continued I would get up and walk out of the room. The dementia makes them incapable of reason. They simply cannot process anything logical. They just want, see, do what they want in the minute without understanding how it affects those around them. I think they know something is wrong on some level but don't know what. They are afraid and revert to childhood coping mechanisms, which is often demanding and selfish. I learned not to make demands or have expectations of my father. My "father" is gone.
I, too, question this person in geriatrics. He or she may need more education in overall mental health illnesses. Add age and perhaps dementia into the mix, with - as was already mentioned - the way your dad grew up about "women's work," and it's a recipe for disaster for your son and for you.
It sounds to me as if your son has some special needs as well. You have to balance these issues and it's agonizing. I know because I've been there and still am.
Still, there are places such as assisted living where your dad may thrive, but there may be nowhere that your son could do well without you. There is no shame in placing your dad in a facility and giving him the support that you can.
Your situation is harder than many people’s because of your son's needs. Consider placing your father. It's hard and he will fight it but in the end, you and your son can't go on like this. It’s also possible that your dad may do well in an environment where his meals are provided without question.
Please keep us posted. We do care about you.
Carol
Are you working,retired or unemployed? Well more than two now I get going. Does dad cook for himself? Do you cook regular meals when you are home fo everyone.
Can you make sure the freezer is stocked with healthy microwavable meals your son can heat himself. they can be as simple as an extra portion from a meal prepared at the week end or even a can of something your son can open. Even hearty soups and rolls. Right now or permanently stop asking dad to do stuff that he can use as a weapon to stir you up. Annoying as it is he has needs that are not being met. This is all designed to get attention from you. Unfortunately your son is caught in the middle so he has to be got out of this position.Non of this is your fault it probably goes way back even to unmet needs from his childhood. NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. YOUD DID NOT CAUSE HIS PROBLEMS. What will be your fault is if it is allowed to continue and harm your son's future. Get him the help he needs and get some for yourself and your son. If Dad refuses then you can think of the next steps with professional advice. Not easy when you are so upset and caught in the middle of it. You have taken a good step by comming here. many people have and are facing similar siuations and I am sure others will contribute.
When I was staying and caring for my cousin, I know how difficult it was to handle her behavior. It was very stressful. It was even stressful on her cat. The cat was not happy due to the unpredictable outbursts, constant worrying, etc. by my cousin. I know we are expected to take care of our elders, but I don't think some situations are healthy for kids. This is just my opinion.
This is a perfect opportunity for both of you to learn how to handle the manipulators who are found in all walks of life.
We can't change the people we encounter, but we can become strong within ourselves so our peace won't be disturbed by outside forces.
Blessings to all concerned and good luck in resolving this stressful issue.
Many of dementia's behaviors look like the deliberate behaviors of people who are unkind, demanding, and just plain mean. It is hard to accept that physical conditions in the brain -- atrophy, deposits of various materials, dying cells -- are the cause.
Thanks for sharing your work shop experience.
His "anger" can shift. HE can be completely angry and acting out but if there is a new person in the picture his mood shifts and he acts as if he is perfectly fine. I do not if he had dementia he could do that.
I personally am at my limit. Another issue is due to my physical ailments I cannot work. I am somewhat reliant on his help financially and he is aware of that. We ended up together shortly after they found the rare curvature in my spine. The initial reason he was with me was my health. He now tells other she wouldn't feel "right" leaving me. The issues now are he feels he cannot live without me. This all should be working hand in hand it is not.
I do think some of the negative behavior comes from a mental issue. I am not sure how much. It is very odd how it all plays out. I am thinking a lot of it MAY be that he doesn't' want to do much (and he has told me this) more so than him being unable. Which is which I do not know.
I was really convinced in the beginning he was seriously ill. After a year now, I am NOT. A year ago he told me he could not boil noodles, now MIRACULOUSLY he can. THe same thing with the phone. As well, he stated he could not understand his bills, yet he read the car warranty and deciphered it.
Medically I have set up his PCP again, a psychiatrist , and the neuropsych. He has blown off appointments, refused to take his medication, or follow up on recommendations With the medications, he does not outright say he is not taking them, he waits until I count them, confront him, tells me he forgets, and refuses to use a pill box. One of his meds was over a month behind.
I am very interested in hearing Op's on others who have dealt with similar issues.How do you separate yourself from the chaos (mentally)?
He needs professional management. You are deceiving yourself and decreasing your dad's functioning if you keep him at home. People function better (if they are able) in a professional, less emotionally involved center.
Your are ruining your life and your son's.
Another issue I do not understand is when you have a list how you forget to do it. He has put off calling an attorney for months now. I try hard not to constantly baggier him to do things however some things are now getting way out of hand with his finances. I have taken over most of the bills, but payment agreements etc need to be done by him. He refuses to do the paperwork most of the time. Leads me to another question on how to determine what he can do vs. what he doesn't' want to and enabling?