The hospital can not find a facility that will take him because he is a convicted sex offender. The hospital has told us he can not live on his own. He has advanced MS and refused when we tried to get him treatment. He is also an alcoholic and very verbally abusive always has been. He can't walk, bathe, make his meals. And is incontinent. The hospital has given us 6 days before they discharge him. I asked what the last resort was if we cant find placement for him. She said we would have to pick him up. Take him back to his apartment. They had determined that was not an option. They also mentioned calling adult protective services! That scared me. Can I be held criminally responsible if I can't take care of him anymore?
Are you giving up ur POA and allowing the State to take guardianship?
For the most part, POAs are only a legal way to sign documents, take over financial payments, receive medical information, etc, when it becomes necessary or the principal states it can be taken over. They do NOT mean one takes over someone's care (anyone, not just family, can be assigned as POAs, often attorneys are used - you think an attorney would take physical care of ANYONE? not a fat chance!)
My brother is in a LTCF and we did not have to pick him up or be held responsible for him thanks to all the great positive and helpful responses. I can't thank everyone enough for helping me and my family get through this very difficult time. God bless you all.
Mzsz1977.
Joann29
LOL, “wound care”.
That diagnosis, I bet, was done as that’s speciality care. Wound care can be such that the diagnosis is done (his ICD-10 codes) so that patient needs hyperbaric medicine. And old place is not certified to do this. Most hospitals are not ever set up for hyperbaric care.
It would be a HAPU admission. My hubs had melanoma surgery with lymph node removal. Then got lymph node infection. Weeks of in home wound care, which I did. Kinda like doing a nasty reverse stuffing of pork chops. But as part of our health insurance coverage, had evaluation & followup for HAPU admission. There were under 1k facilities certified for HAPU. My point is, if the old place used “wound care required”, to get the OP’s brother, David, moved out, that’s pretty clever gaming of the diagnostic admissions system.
I have an update. Everything you have told me has come true. I spoke to David's case worker yesterday and she said she "thinks" she has a place in Colorado springs that will take him. She stated they require 4 approvals before they can except him and three had said ok but was unable to contact the 4th one at this time. She told me that usually when three approve then the fourth person usually does also. I told her we could not care for him.
This morning she (case worker) called and told me they were transferring David to a hospital in Pueblo because he has a wound they can not treat. She also informed me at that time the N/H
Rejected his application. I went to the hospital right away took me about 30 min and David was already on his way to Pueblo. ???
I did not have a chance to see the wound they were talking about. I was home about an hour when the hospital in pueblo told me I need to come pick David up because there was no reason for him to be there!. I told them I could not come pick him up. They said someone would call me about this situation.
The next call I got surprise surprise his case worker in Walsenburg. He's was being transferred back to Walsenburg tonight! All I can say is Wow! Thank you all for the great advice you gave me. We will see what happens from this point.
Mzsz1977
You can do it.
Advanced MS is certainly an unpleasant and difficult challenge. No one is responsible for that, and certainly not you. It's unfortunate, but you've tried to care for him and he hasn't been cooperative. Is there anything more than you could in fact do for him?
Your brother had a choice whether or not to drink and to be verbally abusive. That's on him, not you.
When you write that you can't care for him "any more", I'm assuming that you have been doing that. I give you credit for accepting that challenge; it's one which many people would reject. You deserve to be congratulated for what you've done so far.
In summary, your brother is not compliant with activities that can socialize him, and he has a sex offender history. Neither of those are your responsibility, and not your mandate to resolve or address. I do hope you don't feel guilty making a choice that likely takes over his care and his placement?
Discharge planners are as Igloo expressed. I'll be blunt and add that they can manipulative, overbearing and conniving women. That's what this one is trying to do to you, guilt you into taking responsibility off her hands.
Sometimes I just play along and pretend to listen to their plans, while I'm already ignoring them and making my own plans. They then move on to their next sucker.
APS really is the best option; they have the resources as well as the legal authority to make things happen. And they have the state standing to address and make plans for consequences, something which many of us don't have.
Don't put yourself in the unenviable and challenging position of trying to find a place for him. It's probably an impossible task.
And please think kindly of yourself for everything you've done thus far, but focus on yourself from now on. I think many of us here know what it's like to have to let a stronger entity take control, and may still feel remorse for having done so, but it's (a) for the best for you and for your brother, and (b) at this point the only option.
I hope you can find peace in your heart once you make your decision.
ETA: I think the only way criminal responsibility would arise is if you were his court appointed guardian and failed to find a place for him, just abandoning him.
Hearing everyone's caring responses is very heart warming!
- will do whatever to make her problem (Brother) becomes your or anyone’s else’s problem. They are flat out lying to you right now if they telling you that you have to come & pick him up in 6 days.
- they cannot do an unsafe discharge. Bro can go back to his apt. But he cannot self discharge, aka leave totally on his own as he cannot function on his own. He needs someone, really any pigeon the discharge planner can guilt into this, to be there when those nursing staff exit notes for his after care are done, medications signed off on, prescriptions given to & take him in their car off hospital grounds. If you know any of his friends, & you like them, I’d forewarn them on this.
- APS might can actually work in your favor. If APS called in, and he can not be competent to function on his own, APS can get an emergency ward of the state done on him.
- on day 6, if nobody shows up, they are going to keep him. They may get him with fresh diagnostic codes and move him into another unit. If your state has a long term care mental health facility, maybe transfer him there.
- you need to be very clear that you cannot take on the responsibility.
- you can resign or rescind a DPOA. It would be something like “unable to carry out the fiduciary duty, health & security oversight needed to be his DPOA as he undermines actions taken on his behalf”. You don’t have to go into detail. If he’s a sex offender, others will put their imagination to work for them..... without you saying anything. Fax this over to social work Dept at the hospital. If you do a fax, do it from FedEx / old Kinkos type of place as they do a transmission report of the fax. The transmission report states date, time and that received. It’s your proof you let them know.
On another tangent, I’d be super concerned that his old living situation may not actually take him back. If his past was glossed over or he moved in quite a long time ago, that he’s a registered offender may not be well known, not on folks radar. Maybe he’ll be viewed as a new resident? Well if so, those notifications for sex offender need to be published, etc, so they don’t take him back. Or there’s children living in same complex now, so he cannot return. I’d suggest you quietly try to find out if this might be the case. If so, you do not, do not , DO NOT, want to be a part of any of this as he will end up going home w/you as that old apt not there for him. You’ll never get him out.
good luck & let us know what happens.
The entire family refused to take him in after a stay in the ER. I do not know who finally picked him up and was 'responsible' for him. His POA was his grown daughter who lived 700 miles away. She simply stated she wanted nothing to do with him and she didn't know she was his POA to boot. She had 2 small daughters--she would NOT let him near them.
Let APS work their 'magic'. I personally did not care where my OB went after this hospital stay and I don't know, to this day.
And NO GUILT. I had 4 daughters living at home. Was I going to subject them to his toxic and sick behavior?? Absolutely not.
Being one of his 'victims' made me hard and cold about his life. I never saw him again after this situation and I have NO remorse about it.
Tell them its OK to call APS that you will not be picking him up and returning him to an unsafe place. And you personally cannot bring him to ur home and care for him. APS will take over and set up guardianship. Your POAs will be revoked. You can live the rest of ur life knowing he is in a safe place with others overseeing his care.
I like what Geaton said "I know he's your brother and regardless of how he chose to live his life, it doesn't make this situation any less painful for you. Peace to you."
You did not cause your brother's health problem. You are not responsible for the choices he made in his life. You are not responsible for any mental problems he has. So, he is where he is because of "his" choices. You did what you could but now its beyond that. Please, don't ever feel guilty. Sometimes our best is just not enough.
Keep us updated!
Go to the facility. Contact the social worker or if she/he will not meet with you, go to the business office. Tell them that you are NOT responsible for your brother's care, nor able to do it nor oversee it.. Do not listen to any argument nor platitudes of they will help and they will help you make this work. They cannot and they WILL NOT.
I would personally would resign as POA myself.
Tell them that you will NOT pick him up, as he will NOT be safe at home. Tell them that you will hold them responsible for an unsafe discharge, that you cannot imagine how or where they will/can place him, but if THEY don't know, you CERTAINLY don't know. Tell them that if they attempt to place him in the home you will notify Adult Protective Services of unsafe discharge .
What you are doing is basically an ER dump. You are telling them you cannot care for this person (because that it the TRUTH; you CANNOT). Now it is on the State. And with what he has done and what he has done to himself, this is where he has ended up. Now realize that this likely means state guardianship. You will have NOTHING TO SAY about his placement, what facility, where it is located, or how his money is spent. Know that and accept that.
This has to be dreadfully hard. Basically you have no brother. Time to start recognizing that and letting the world know that you do not. I am so very sorry for your situation. Please update us.
Me, I would rescind my DPOA, let the state appoint a guardian, he, then, is their problem, not yours.