Mom has dementia and was admitted into a nursing home after a traumatic ER episode from a fall and UTI. I am trying to get MEDICAID for her (dad left her destitute after passing last year) and she was denied. I hired an attorney to appeal to try to get the bank to release the bank statements from 2016 and 17 and so far they refuse. I’m making myself sick with worry that I won’t be able to do this. Dad also had dementia and did some crazy banking. The county wants answers about his banking that I can’t possibly answer. What will happen to my mother if I lose the appeal with Medicaid? I can’t bring her home, I can’t care for her. What will I do? I hope someone has some sort of answers.
If your mother is destitute then Medicaid will not be a problem. The POA for dad expired when he died. So it's out of your hands. Your mother will become a ward of the state and the probate court will appoint a conservator over her. Most likely it will be a social worker from the nursing home she is in. They will settle things up for her including her Medicaid application.
Unless you want to apply for conservatorship over her. In that case you can petition the court.
If she's already in the nursing home and staying there, I wouldn't bother. Whatever assets or property your parents had will get handed over to the nursing home until there's nothing and then Medicaid takes over. Speak to a social worker at the nursing home about them taking over.
- old POA that you had w Dad does NOT matter anymore. Dad is dead; POA stopped when he died. POA only recognized if alive. That’s why bank won’t do squat with u on dads accounts. If you had Letters Testamentary naming u executor, bank would be helpful. Personally if your attorney did not know this lit factoid right off the bat, I’d be somewhat concerned about their level of skill / experience.
BUT
if mom was co-owner or signatory on dads accounts or he did them POD (pay on death) to mom, then mom can on go to the bank and get access to them…, can changed over to just her name….. can add you onto them as signatory….. can do them as POD to you. Now if mom cannot physically go to the bank or appear to be competent and cognitive enough to do this, that’s another issue.
On debt, Medicaid doesn’t give a rats butt on how much debt dad had or mom has. Debt issues of the applicant or their spouse is NOT Medicaids problem. Medicaid is all about income & assets. income is $ mom gets in ea & every month, eg Social Security $. Assets is home, cars, land, $ in the bank, investments. Non-exempt Assets limited to 2k by & large for most states individual LTC Medicaid program. Exempt assets for her lifetime are her home & 1 car
So that being said, on Medicaid wanting to see old deposits, that’s imo all about determining if $ is coming from an income that still might exist or an asset that was sold in the past or from an asset that wasn’t disclosed or is $ owed to dad / mom.
Hang with me on this…. If deposits are a fixed amount in a pattern, like $456.78 the 20th of ea mo for several months, that looks like “income”, so Medicaid wants to find out if it is “income”, & from what, & why it stopped. If your dad had lots of investments, business, financial adventures, he may have still out there assets that he sold or traded and not fully paid. Yes, he’s dead but if someone owed him $, the debt might could be $ owed to mom, so it’s possibly income / asset of hers. Medicaid wants info on old deposits to see what they came from and if they are related to a debt still owed or income paid. So if $456.78 for 3 years was from dad selling $16,444.00 truck, that ‘income” paid in full and no longer exists. But if buyer stopped paying $456.78 but still owes $6,000 that’s an debt owed. Debt owed is an asset. If it’s this, it’s way way sticky as I think it’s technically called an unactualized / unrealized debt and dealt with in dads probate filings to have it as an asset but uncollectible. It’s Probate atty work. Not a DIY.
Medicaid wants clarification on deposits to see if it’s a problem.
I’ve been an executor x 3; 1st one was for an “Aunt”. She was viewed as having semi-serious 🧐 $ but reality was lot of convoluted debt 💸. Anyways she had by past marriages land that was sold by one of the hubs but canceled buyers debt for part & took back part. Title was hinky. Probate Atty had a real estate attorney over in that part of the state do some sort of filing to have the cancelled zero out as an unrealized debt. No way I could ever DIY any of this, I still don’t fully understand it nor do I need too. Way beyond my wheelhouse. My point is a good experienced atty can figure out what to do to clarify what financials are and establish if deposits involved are income or assets that would now affect your moms Medicaid application. Hopefully your atty is Medicaid savvy.
An appeal has been filed; an attorney hired. You’ve done what needs to happen. You know not to take mom out of the NH no matter what the NH wants you to do. You deserve a lil bottle of Your favorite adult beverage.
do you think my paying off this car will end up creating a big problem for me with Medicaid? I don’t understand how Medicaid works, but believe that the appeal went through, she has been approved and haven’t heard otherwise. Or will they be further questioning me in the future as things progress?
THIS! Please understand that there is no "temporary" when it comes to discharge. If you take her home, they are out of the picture, no matter WHAT they say. You canNOT take her home for ANY length of time.
NOW, she is wheelchair bound, her dementia much worse, and incontintent. She no longer can be left alone.
So on Mom was denied for exactly what? Financial not medical, right?
medical appeal totally different, I had that w my mom, but financial with my MIL. Way way different path.
which precise documents were not given to Medicaid?
what is it exactly they are wanting?
How many months is mom at in her NH stay?
for both my mom & MIL, each of their NH had a list of documents needed to accompany their LTC Medicaid application. The list as far as what they called items varied but it was pretty much all the same items.
what’s missing?
I’m kinda guessing this is more of a dads documents problem…..
On your dad, so he died year or so ago, right? & He had a bit of a clusterF on financials, is that kinda right? So What is the status of his estate? Has his probate been opened? Like there a will so probate can be opened? if the accounts in question involve dads financials, the Executor or Administrator of his Estate (appointed by probate court) can get them from the bank, etc and give to Medicaid. If your not the Executor, u need to send a certified letter requesting the specific items to Executor and CC NH & Medicaid on this asap.
OR
was your parents situation that all dads assets went to mom, as his wife. If it was this, did mom get all accounts moved into her name? So mom is owner on accounts BUT she did not have you on the accounts as a signatory? So you have no access or ability to get at them?
OR
did he die “intestate”. that is without a will? So nobody has legal ability to request any of dads financials yet as no heirs determined. If he died intestate, someone need to get an atty to do a lineal heirship going on dads estate if it’s actually worthwhile to do this.
what kind of assets were there for dad & are there for mom? Like does she have a home and that’s where you live?
Are there car(s) in thier names? Any other assets in either name?
Did dad die with all kinds of debts?
No need for specific details but more a general assets vs debts for them…. So what’s it like? For us, Mil was a real financial terrorist while mom was good with $, both can be a buttrash for Medicaid but quite different as to how & why.
Barb is totally spot on that the NH has to keep her in the bed. NH as they take Medicare (Medicare not Medicaid) is required to do only a safe transfer from the facility. So that means another NH or to a hospital for mom. HOWEVER if they can coerce you or another family member to come & pick mom up and take mom into your home, they will. You have got to, GOT TO, let the NH know in no uncertain terms that you cannot provide a safe & secure placement for your mom; you are unable to do & provide the oversight needed for her care & safety in your home; that you will NOT be coming to get your mom. Don’t let them goad or flummox you into agreeing to get mom when you visit either. If you need to practice saying this with others do that. Not all of us are adept at voice of authority bad *itch mode (rotflmao), so if you’re not, practice. It may mean you kinda limit your visting to right before they are closing so that you don’t encounter admissions or billing.
and will I ever be able to sleep again??
we are trying to do most of the legwork ourselves but maybe this was a terrible mistake??
There might be legitimate issues though: in whose name(s) were the accounts? If jointly between both your parents, there might have been a need to document your father's death, with the account ceding to your mother (assuming the account was titled jointly). I would ask the attorney about this.
I would also keep the county apprised of your progress/situation, and make it clear that the data they require won't be released w/o further legal involvement. Document every step; you don't know what issues might come up as you go through this process.
I know little about Medicaid, but I'm wondering that, since your father has passed, only your mother's role in the bank accounts would be considered.
Igloo, can you help with this? (Igloo is a Medicaid expert; I'll PM her and hopefully she'll have time to offer insights on the unique world of Medicaid.)
Breathe!
If your mom is "in a bed" let her stay there. That is the wise advice given to me many years ago by a discharge planner.
If you do nothing, the state can declare her a ward of the state and take over her care. She will get cared for.