Issue with sister-in-law about my father's money.
I've been posting on here about problems with my dad and sister. Now I'm having an issue with my SIL wanting money when I have explained he needs it to pay for his care.
When my brother found out he had cancer, he told my dad to give his inheritance to his wife. He was getting one account and one of my parent's life insurance policies. My father told her I think after he passed that she could have all the money in the account when she needed it. He told her this when he was of sound mind, there wasn't any kind of document created to make what he said legal. He was wrong in telling her this. He gave her a large amount in 2011 to buy a house which completely paid for it. Last week she called to ask for money again, she is moving out of state to be with her family. Before this phone call, I had not talked to her about what his happening to him (he has had a lot of cognitive decline). When my father handed the phone to me I couldn't say much as he wouldn't leave the room, which is one of his annoying behaviors, he hangs around and listens to conversations. I told my father that I was going to talk to her on my phone. I went into the bathroom and locked the door. She said how much money she wanted and when I repeated the amount, I heard my father on the other side of the door yelling angrily saying the money stays where it is, then he accused me of loaning out his money. I have no idea how long he was there listening. The conversation got very heated, she heard the whole thing, he finally went into the other room, then came back and calmly agreed to talk about it, he said that she could pay it back slowly, then he said maybe she should just have it, he wanted me to decided, I told him I can't do that, then he agreed to just give it. The next day we went to the bank to get the process started.
My issue is that after thinking about it, I don't think it would be a good idea to give her the entire amount. She lives in another state but has never done anything for my parents. When my mom had a brain aneurysm and I was the one taking care of her with my dad, she never offered to relieve me to take a vacation. I have financial POA. I contacted her and tried to get more information on what the money would be used for and found out that it's for repairs on the house being moved into and she wanted to have it all done by the time she moved in. I explained to her that my dad is going to need expensive care in the near future and that I need to do what is best for him and his financial needs have to come before ours. I explained that he would have to fill out a form for his taxes on this. I also said that I met with an attorney a few months ago and he said that the money is not ours until he dies. She basically disregarded what I explained and said that she really needs the money. Regardless of what he told her years ago, things change.
I feel that she is making me choose her over him. I would be willing to send her half which is the amount that you can give away without having to file the tax form and that would make a small dent in the remaining amount in the account. My dad has a good amount in investments and he may never need that account, but I need to make sure that it is there just in case and then what is left over she will get, just like for me and my sister. She must think that the account has a never ending supply of money. It pisses me off that she feels that because she was married to my brother, it makes her entitled to this money. I left a message for one of his doctors, told him my issue, and if they can give me an idea of the extent of care he will need and that I need this information to tell her so she will back off. I did this because she is not understanding what he has to have and if I tell her what his doctor says maybe it will get her to back off.
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Does your dad have a diagnosis for what is causing his cognitive issues? A lot of people with dementia will be very stubborn with their primary caregivers but have a really hard time standing up to friends or family outside their closest circle. It is really hard for them to understand the consequences of actions, and very hard for them to juggle and weigh multiple pieces of information. If you have any doubt about your dad's ability to reason this out, then definitely do not give her thousands of dollars. If your dad truly wishes to give her financial help, gently tell him that it is better for everyone if he talks to a financial advisor or attorney first since tax laws have changed a lot recently. That way, your dad's attorney can give a sense of whether this is an appropriate thing to do without you being the bad guy.
I’m working on that. Friday, we met with a psychologist to do the first evaluation. She said that he cannot distinguish the truth and he has mild to moderate dementia. He is scheduled for a memory test next month and then he will have another evaluation where medication is discussed. I can’t be in the room when the test happens. It is a really bad time for her to ask for money and she needs to understand that his needs have to come first. He did finally agree for her to have the money, but she is expecting to get all of it at some point. Of course he believes he doesn’t need any care but he did say in the meeting on Friday that he thinks he has some memory problems. He did finally agree to give her the money, but if I give it to her it is gone and then that is a large amount of money that will not be there if he needs it and I need to make sure that it is in place. If he doesn’t need it great, but I have no idea if that will happen. The part of his brain that controls reasoning isn’t working. I would agree to give her half the amount, and then she would have to figure out how to pay for the repairs herself, it’s not fair to expect him to bail her out all the time. My dad doesn’t have an attorney, but I talked to one in April about a different inheritance issue. This money is inheritance, the attorney said that it’s his money he can do what he wants and it’s not ours until he dies. But to be watchful when he writes checks for large amounts of money such as the amount my SIL asked for, that might signal elder financial abuse. I know that’s not what she’s doing, she’s just not understanding of what he needs. I would never ask my dad for huge amounts of money. Unfortunately, I don’t have money to see an attorney and I wish I could ask him to pay for it, but if I show him the bill for an attorney I don’t know what his reaction would be. I don’t know if he would be able to understand an attorney meeting. For some reason, he has always thought that the Trust and the POA are something to be used against him. He even thought this when he was of sound mind.
I need ideas on how to tell her that I can’t send her the full amount and how to word it.
Thank you for your response. I looked at the trust and it doesn't say anything about giving it away to a relative before passing away.
Buck up and tell your sister in law the next time she calls that you are sorry her new home needs so many repairs, but she will have to figure something else out. End of conversation. You are not in a position to gift money out to her at this time. She will have to wait until your dad passes. Don't argue with her. The money is for his care, period. Come on! You can do this. Make a believer out of her.
So that's one thing: she has no right to the money at this point.
The next thing is your father's ability to make decisions about his money, and your duty as regards your Power of Attorney. This too is pretty simple: your father no longer has the intellectual ability to reach sound decisions about money, so you have the responsibility of acting in his best interests first, and of carrying out what you know for certain would have been his wishes previously second.
You're right to give it thought: had your father set up an allowance for your brother's family, or created some kind of fund for their benefit; and assuming he could afford to do that without getting into difficulty; then you could have allowed that arrangement to stand. But he didn't, and your primary duty is to protect him now.
So I'm sorry, and I realise it's going to lead to some very difficult conversations, but unless you are confident that your father fully appreciated what he was doing when he went to the bank to arrange this gift - in which case, hand it over, because it's his money and he can give it to his DIL if he pleases - then you can't give her any of his money.
So. If it's your decision, SIL gets nix until she inherits. If it's your Dad's decision, DIL gets what he has already decided. How deserving SIL is, how much she helped in the past, what she wants the money for, and even whether or not you would like to keep her on your side: these are not relevant factors.
I told SIL last night, she understood although she still had the mindset that it was her account. I explained AGAIN that it wasn’t her account until he passes. She is not getting money. Just a note about the conversation that I have pasted below, I took away the car keys this past February, he does not drive anymore.
My father had an angry episode this morning. The tree he is speaking of is on the driver side and when he was driving he used to park it very close to the tree:
He demanded “I want my car put back where it always is, next to the tree”
I said “it’s fine where it is, there is more room to get in and out of it”
He said “I can get out fine”
I said “you don’t drive anymore, it’s hard for me to get out of it parked close to the tree”
He said “I can get out fine. I want your car parked next to it”
I said “it’s fine where it is, it’s on the street out of the way”
He said “it’s almost on the sidewalk”
I said “that’s ok”
I asked him why he was getting mad, he said “I am mad”.
I went out a few minutes later to repark his car, I came back in the front door was unlocked. I went to my room to get my car key, the front door was locked, he had locked the tumble lock and the lock on the doorknob. I asked him why it was locked.
He said “you locked it”
I said “no I didn’t I was in my room, you locked it”
He said “I didn’t lock it”
This was in a span of about 10 minutes and he was fine after that, like it never happened.
I talked to his primary care doctor this morning and asked him about the POA. I told him it says that it takes effect immediately, but it doesn’t say that it is contingent on having a diagnoses. He said that you need letters from 2 doctors with the diagnosis about his mental state. His doctor is helping me with this ASAP, my father has a memory test next month and his Neurologist told me this morning that she is going to get him in ASAP to get the diagnosis. The trust says that I can act in his best interests before he is deemed incompetent.
Yesterday, I had to have an exterminator come out to look at a bee situation we have. He put on some dessicant powder to kill them, told me the price, my dad was outside watering, I told my dad that we need to write him a check and told him the amount, I said that I could write the check and he would sign it, he didn’t say anything, I told him this is a need for his safety, not a want, he said ok. His reasoning ability is basically not there. When he writes checks for his bills it takes about 10 minutes, he has difficulty understanding what you write on the line below who you are writing the check to.
That would have been nice if he had set up accounts for my brother, me and my sister, but he never did. He probably thought it wouldn’t be needed, that nothing would happen until my parents passed.
I am not confident that he fully knew what he was doing at the bank even though he told them what needed to be done. This is based on the check he needed to write for the exterminator, he was very guarded about that amount - $135.00, and didn’t understand why it was really needed. I have not asked him about going to the bank as I do not want to trigger something. I have to be very careful now what I say to him. He has always said even when he was of sound mind that he and my mom would never need any help, that they will never get to that point and he still thinks that now, and based on his thinking that he doesn’t need help, even if he did understand what he was doing at the bank, I can’t let that much money go. He thinks that account where that money would be withdrawn from has more money in it than it does.
My SIL has never helped my mom or dad. I asked her a few days ago if she would come out in October to stay with him so I could get out of here for a week and she said that she has a vacation planned in October to take her mom to senior summer camp. She never offered to come out at another time to help. I would love to keep her on my side, but if it came to her making waves, that would change.
My SIL is one year younger than me, 54, our birthdays are 2 days apart.
He is not independently wealthy, or "generational money". My mom did an amazing job saving money. Not rich, but has some really good investments. It’s ridiculous how much it costs! I am not going to dispense his inheritance, I am going to protect him. Yes, the money should be safeguarded.
I am sorry about what happened in your family. Please don’t get upset, did the son want the money to spend on himself before he (the son) died? My sister has never helped and has never offered to relieve me. For 7 years after my mom’s aneurysm, I never took a vacation and she never told me thank you for everything I’ve done. She has recently stepped up after I told what is now happening. She and her husband came down beginning of June, we talked about it, she said maybe she should move in, I said not enough room, she said there were 5 people in the house when we grew up, I told her we are adults now. After the outburst about the money I called her, I told her SIL heard entire conversation, sister called SIL to see if I was exaggerating, SIL said no she heard it all, my sister then said maybe she should move in I WILL HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER PLACE TO LIVE AS THERE ISN’T ENOUGH ROOM! She is heartless and selfish, to even make that remark when she knows everything that I have given up and sacrificed for my mom and now for my dad. My dad is a very generous person and will not deny his children money and he never asks questions about why it is needed. He was of sound mind when he gave SIL the amount for the first house. He never foresaw what is happening now. Around 2012 he got scammed by a woman for a lot of money who used her children to get money from him. I found out because one of his banks called me and told me she thinks he is being taken advantage of and he had asked them to withdraw all the money from one of his accounts and he was going to give it to her, that was when they called me. I went to see him and I said this person is a thief taking advantage of you and to stop, he said she wasn’t a thief because it involved children. She stopped calling when he told her his daughters are very upset.
She can talk to her church for help, she needs to add onto the mortgage what the repairs will cost. Rent free from the first house for at least 4 years, she should banked the money for rent and have a substantial savings from that. She has also been continuously employed the last 6 years. I haven’t had continuous employment due to job market, had to quit a job to take care of my very sick cat who passed away in March, had to move back home and now this. I can’t get unemployment. What happened this morning, his mental state is worse. Trying to get that diagnosis, hopefully that will happen in the next month, but it is getting worse.