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I am so sick of the word 'rent'. I doesn't even begin to encompass the word for all we do. That word is a huge red flag for me these days. I paid rent when I was in college and working my rear end at my first job after school.
No one placed me on the potty, or wiped my butt. No one got up at 5:45 every morning so I could go potty on their demand every freaking day of my life. No one limited my time out of the house to an hour a day. I paid rent. Not giving up my freaking life for what I was paid for CG.
I was taught that every member of the household starts contributing to the household, when they have an income. When my uncle allowed me to work Fridays and Saturdays at his dental office at age 14, I contributed, $5 a week to the household. It was a lesson, not much of a financial arrangement for my parents.
Contributing and sharing assets is what I expect in a household.
Some people do seem to emphasize the financial relationship over the familial. These families may be better served to break financial ties and interdependencies and concentrate on the family roles. Doing business with family has always been complicated and fraught with peril. It does not get easier with age.
I do not see anything wrong with mom contributing to the household, whether food or rent, as long as it is fair. No guilt, and your relationship is mother/daughter, not tenant/landlord. Just keep that perspective.
There are unfortunate cases of elder abuse where the family only keeps the elder around for the monthly SS check.....that is not your case, if it was you would not question yourself. A woman in Ohio just went to jail for not reporting her mother passing, burying her in the yard, all because she did not want to get a job and forgo the check! Eek!
I love my Mother very much but it is very expensive taking care of her and her meds, doctors, and other wishes. I quit my job and have charged up credit cards for her supplies. I am waiting on the VA to help us with Aid and Attendance to use the back pay to try to get out of debt again. But we just take one day at a time and do the best we can. The future will take care of itself. I may be someone who will need to work until she is 80 to get out of debt, but I am a survivor and I will do what I need to do.
Yep. "Don't feed the trolls" by responding to them. Sort of like that annoying little bully in grade school...the more you get upset, the more it eggs them on & the behavior continues.
Well, Terrim, since you don't want me to send you a message via your wall, I will post in Public. I think you were very rude to respond to Wallycat by saying "People like this make me sick."
I was not telling you what to do but to show some respect online to people asking for help. They came here looking for answers, NOT to be attacked verbally by you..."People like this make me sick." I promise from now on, I will NOT post on your wall - even though - quoting you...it " IS a Free country, and Freedom of Speech."
Charging elderly adult parents for rent is no different then charging an adult child rent. Nobody should live off another person. I believe a reasonable amount should be sufficient based on the individual's income. No one is entitled to a free ride no matter what the situation is. I agree that the best solution is to have an elderly parent pay by check in their own name some of the utilities of the household.
To answer your original question... per our Elder Care Attorney, "Do not take a check made out to you from your Mom on a monthly basis"" they will investigate..."BUT" do have her pay household bills.. ie..utilities etc...totaling the amount you've decided on together for monthly rent...
If you receive a check from your Mom on a monthly basis as rent, you will need to claim that as income when filing taxes....
I am so sad at some of the negative responses. I too have to charge my mom rent in order to stay home and take care of her. I left a 60k a year job to take care of my mom and without the rent money she pays I wouldn't be able to afford groceries. I could have hired someone to take care of her or put her in a nursing home but I preferred to be there for her during this time. Everyone has a different story but this site is meant to be supportive and to find out information regarding our different situations, not a site to bash others because you think they are doing the wrong thing.
terrim, Just an FYI, your view of the world makes ME sick. You must be a miserable individual thinking your child OWES you because you went through the "agony" of childbirth and the horrible responsibility and cost of feeding and raising them. A life based on misplaced guilt and obligation is no life at all. Seriously, I want my child to feel joy and love. That's what will get you further in life. I want my child to WANT to come back to me when I am old, because he loves me and wants the best for me, not for some "I birthed you, now you owe me, crap."
I quit my job in January. My husband and I have moved into my moms home. She is more comfortable here, she does well, and it helps tremendously with the confusion, but does not eliminate it by any means. My adult son is now moved back into our home to keep things up. We will keep this arrangement as long as it works. We are hopeful we can see her all the way into hospice and a comfortable death in her own home.
Mom did not do well in my home, or the home of my siblings. We tried it. I was the one in the best shape to quit my job. We agreed to it (siblings) and of course my husband is supportive. I cannot afford to not work, but it is what it is for now and so we have made that decision. My siblings also contribute financially, and neither them or their spouses have an issue with it at all. We have discussed this for years.
I earn a salary of 850.00 per month from my moms income. It is all she can afford. She covers the groceries for the home, the utilities, home owners insurance, taxes. She did this already. Mom has no vehicle so we use mine.
Whatever arrangements you have made are your business and yours alone. We work it out the best way we can. Medicaid will not come after your rent money, she is expected to pay her way weather she is with you or alone. When her money has run out or you are not able to care for her anymore, medicaid will assist, they do not expect care giving for free.Odds are very good your situation is like mine, in the sense that if my mom could financially afford 24/7 care, we would be in a different situation. For years my siblings and I have financially contributed to my mother when she was able to live alone. We have made the decision to keep her out of a facility and this is the way we do it. If my mom lived in my home and I had left my job, she would still be contributing 850 per month to my household income. Twenty four seven care privately paid can cost 10 grand per month and in many cases much more than that. We do what we can for our loved ones and we work it out the best way we can, this is our way and it works perfectly. Truth be told, if my mother was in her right mind she would be horrified at the small stipend of money she is contributing to me. I love her, we make do.
It seems as though most people are moralizing the charging of rent to your mother (and a few rather rudely!), wallycat, rather than answering the actual question you asked. I will only add that wallycat did not say **how much rent is being paid,** so no one can judge. And I will add that I work with many caregiver families living in multigenerational households and charging rent is perfectly normal. But I believe more than enough has been said about this.
In regard to Medicaid laws, you might want to check with your local Medicaid office. You could ask to speak with a financial worker about the rules in your state. But in general, most seniors living on their own who go into a nursing home or other care facility are previously paying living costs, whether they are in their own home or renting. In fact, if your mother were not paying a dime to you and her savings were growing and growing, she might have a harder time qualifying when she needs Medicaid because she might be at risk for being over resource limits. By paying rent, she is contributing to her living expenses, just as she would if she were living on her own, which Medicaid expects as an expense. When applying for programs, Medicaid often asks for a LOT of documentation which is proof of a person's income, assets and expenses. As you will need to provide this information someday, I would recommend having something in writing, like a lease and writing your mother a rent recipt each month, to have a record of proof to show Medicaid in future should they ask.
I love these altruistic people who would NEVER charge their parents rent and how we should then pay them back for having us. It's quite obvious they have not given up other income, in fact our very lives and own futures that could be to our own detriment in the future, thus making someone else HAVE to take care of us if there is such a person for us. We charge rent because we need the money to take care of our parents. In addition, many times the parents feel independent and have more self esteem because they are "paying their own way." In addition, by living with us, they get the personal individualized attention and care that otherwise they wouldn't get being the sole "patients."
People tend to fall on one side or the other of this particular question, but my own POV is that no one "owes" their parent(s) anything for having been carried, delivered, or raised. I did not ask to be born, and I was not born into some kind of long-term indentured servitude to "pay back" the people who made that decision without any input or agreement from me. The decision to create me was entirely my parents', and they did so knowing that they would be legally and morally required to feed, clothe, shelter, and educate me until I was an adult and capable of supporting myself.
Does this mean I am not grateful to my parents for loving me and looking out for me? Does it mean I do not thank my late mother each and every day for passing along to me her love of music, and for forcing me to study it when I was a kid (a thing that I hated at the time, but which has given me so much joy as an adult that it makes me tremble to think how easily I might have missed out on it)? Does the fact that I fervently believe no adult child "OWES" his or her parents anything in the way of "payback" for being born -- a viewpoint which my mother fervently shared, by the way -- mean that I did not do everything I could to help care for her when she was struggling with her terminal cancer, or that I am not doing everything I can now to help my father as he struggles with a progressive dementia?
Of course not. But I have not cared for my parents because I believe I owe them a moral debt for creating me, or for fulfilling the obligation they took on when they chose to do so. A contract – moral or legal -- cannot exist where one party cannot be consulted or agree to it.
Everyone can agree: When you have a baby, you are “giving” that person life. But some people don’t seem to think this through to the logical conclusion – which is that you are also condemning him or her to death (and more than likely, a painful one, because most deaths are). You are “giving” your baby the opportunity to discover all the good things life has to offer – friendship, love, beauty, truth, and awesome, wonderful moments of joy, happiness, and exhilaration. But you are also ensuring that he or she will experience all the bad things, too – fear, boredom, despair, betrayal, cruelty, grief, loneliness, depression, and pain. Making the choice to inflict life – ALL of it, both the good AND the bad – on another human being is an awesome responsibility ... and a completely one-sided one. If you elect to do it, you SHOULD feel a moral responsibility to make whatever sacrifices you have to in order to give that human being the best possible start that you can. Making these sacrifices for your child does not make you a saint – and it does not entitle you to mortgage any part of your child’s finances, freedom, or emotions at any point in his or her adult life.
For my part, I strive to treat my father with love, care, kindness and respect, not because he and my mother brought me into the world or took care of me when I was a child, but because he has always tried to treat me in the same way. I would do the same for any of my siblings or close friends.
I don't believe it's considered "gifting" if that money is a reasonable living expense and there's a paper trail showing the same amount being paid every month. Could be wrong though, but we were never questioned about it when we applied for Medi-Cal for my mom - we just had to turn in bank statements, which showed the check payment every month.
no rental income if it is shared household expenses. sounds like small amt & easily defended --log mileage to Dr, her share of food, util & you sure as heck aren't making a "profit"!
And by the way, to get back to the question, Medicaid does not make gift recipients pay anything back. If the applicant has been deemed to have given money or assets away, there will be a penalty period before becoming eligible for Medicaid.
Terrim, I can't be judgmental about the relationships between others and their parents because my own mother has cost me my own financial future, my physical and mental health, and quite possibly my soul. I pray to God that I will NEVER do to my children what my mother has done to me. Who are YOU to judge what you don't know?
terrim, what kind of human being would charge their parents rent?
I can tell you what kind of human being my sister is. She took in our 92-year-old mother who has dementia. She charges the same rent as what Mom was paying for her subsidized housing. Everyone in our family thinks that is perfectly fine. What else is mother supposed to do with that money? Save it to give us each a small inheritance? Nonsense. And mother would not have moved in with her on a "charity" basis. She is proud of being able to pay her own way.
What kind of a human being is Sis? She was an awesome mother to 3 young boys and now to adult sons and daughters-in-law. (She is the one I would have wanted to raise my boys if I couldn't.) She is an active and caring grandmother. She is loving wife to an awesome husband. She is smart, and had a very responsible job before taking early retirement. She's been poor and she's been comfortable and she's been happy through it all. She is creative and practical. She is extremely generous. She is both kind and no-nonsense firm. She is the best cook in our family (which is saying a lot). She has never expected anyone to give her a free ride for anything. She has worked for what she has and she is cheerful about it. She and her husband continue to actively run a youth bowling league, years after her own children are grown. She would help nearly anyone with whatever she could, and she is no one's doormat.
In short, she is a caring, responsible family member and citizen. The world would be a better place with more people like Sis.
My mom lives with me and my family and she pays us rent...$300 a month to be exact. If my mom were living in a nursing home she would be paying at least $4,000 a month. I rearranged my home so she had a place to live. When she lived on her own she had monthly expenses from being a homeowner and understands that water and electricity and owning a home aren't free. Mom has a roof over her head and I don't feel guilty when she pays us rent. My mom has no debt and is financially stable...so in my case $300 is more than fair to pay on a monthly basis. I spoke with mom's attorney and he has it on file in his office. My accountant said the amount I charge mom is way below market value.
I help her with everything...meals, laundry, showering, washing hair, styling hair, going for lab work, doctors appointments, picking up her medications and making sure she takes them in the morning, lunchtime, and bedtime, and picking up her favorite foods and treats...not to mention checking on her when I am not home to make sure she is okay, etc. These are things I had to fit into my life when she moved in with me...I love her and don't mind being her caretaker...and I appreciate what she contributes to the family. She even tells me she wants to pay her own way.
Yes, she did carry me for nine months and raised me but she brought me into this world so that's what parents do for their children....just like I've done and continue to do for mine. This doesn't mean a parent shouldn't contribute if they can afford to do so. Just sayin...
Medicaid accepts that elders need to/want to pay their own way. Paying rent -- to a landlord, subsidized housing, a room-and-board facility, or a relative -- is a perfectly legitimate expense and is not gifting. If someone is paying a relative way over the market rate, that might be questioned but that situation is seldom the case.
It is best to have the rental agreement or care agreement in writing, to avoid any future misunderstandings.
I think it is important to give our parents the dignity of paying their own way, as long as they can and within their means.
What kind of human being charges his or her elderly mother rent? Maybe she needs to collect from you for carrying you in her body 9 months and all the pain and discomfort that brought and then a huge fee for suffering through childbirth. Then you owe her money for raising you, supporting you, and your food bill for 18 or more years, the back rent you owed for living free in her home for 18 or more years, all the medical bills she had to pay on your behalf as a child, all the gifts and clothes and other items she paid for, etc. I hope you have a high paid job because YOU owe HER at least a million dollars. People like this make me sick.
In addition to all of the other positive responses, it is another legitimate means to pass on money from the mother's estate, while she is still living.
My understanding is that you CAN charge rent. It is best in this sort of circumstance if you have a formal, written, NOTARIZED agreement with your mother as to how much she will be charged for rent and/or other caregiving services. If you did not get this when you started, it might be a good idea to write something up now, if she's still in a mental position to be able to sign it. Obviously, you cannot backdate such an agreement, but you can write something up acknowledging that this has been your mutually agreed-upon arrangement since such-and-such a date.
HOWEVER ... if she has been paying you rent, remember that this counts as "rental income" to you, and you are required to report it as such on your yearly tax return. Similarly, if you are charging for caregiving services, you must report that as personal income on your tax return.
Although I have no personal experience with this, I wonder if Medicaid is able to require a person in your position to submit copies of your own tax returns to prove that you have been reporting any such income that you are claiming as rent/payment for services rather than gifts from your mother. And if you have not, what happens ... do they then pronounce all such payments as "gifts" that must be paid before they will start to kick in money towards your Mom's care? Or do they report you to the IRS for not filing your returns correctly?
I would love to hear from an expert on this topic.
Regarding the first response: please try to remember that many of us are tired, burned out, edgy, and at the end of our ropes. It's natural that someone would make a hasty comment or response once in a while. I like it when we are all supportive of each other, and give ourselves a little more slack. Goodness knows most of our elderly loved don't or can't....👼
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No one placed me on the potty, or wiped my butt. No one got up at 5:45 every morning so I could go potty on their demand every freaking day of my life. No one limited my time out of the house to an hour a day. I paid rent. Not giving up my freaking life for what I was paid for CG.
Contributing and sharing assets is what I expect in a household.
Some people do seem to emphasize the financial relationship over the familial. These families may be better served to break financial ties and interdependencies and concentrate on the family roles. Doing business with family has always been complicated and fraught with peril. It does not get easier with age.
I do not see anything wrong with mom contributing to the household, whether food or rent, as long as it is fair. No guilt, and your relationship is mother/daughter, not tenant/landlord. Just keep that perspective.
There are unfortunate cases of elder abuse where the family only keeps the elder around for the monthly SS check.....that is not your case, if it was you would not question yourself. A woman in Ohio just went to jail for not reporting her mother passing, burying her in the yard, all because she did not want to get a job and forgo the check! Eek!
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/medicaid-make-me-pay-back-money-mom-paid-me-rent-157877.htm?cpage=2
I was not telling you what to do but to show some respect online to people asking for help. They came here looking for answers, NOT to be attacked verbally by you..."People like this make me sick." I promise from now on, I will NOT post on your wall - even though - quoting you...it " IS a Free country, and Freedom of Speech."
If you receive a check from your Mom on a monthly basis as rent, you will need to claim that as income when filing taxes....
That's just wrong in so many ways.
Mom did not do well in my home, or the home of my siblings. We tried it. I was the one in the best shape to quit my job. We agreed to it (siblings) and of course my husband is supportive. I cannot afford to not work, but it is what it is for now and so we have made that decision. My siblings also contribute financially, and neither them or their spouses have an issue with it at all. We have discussed this for years.
I earn a salary of 850.00 per month from my moms income. It is all she can afford. She covers the groceries for the home, the utilities, home owners insurance, taxes. She did this already. Mom has no vehicle so we use mine.
Whatever arrangements you have made are your business and yours alone. We work it out the best way we can. Medicaid will not come after your rent money, she is expected to pay her way weather she is with you or alone. When her money has run out or you are not able to care for her anymore, medicaid will assist, they do not expect care giving for free.Odds are very good your situation is like mine, in the sense that if my mom could financially afford 24/7 care, we would be in a different situation. For years my siblings and I have financially contributed to my mother when she was able to live alone. We have made the decision to keep her out of a facility and this is the way we do it. If my mom lived in my home and I had left my job, she would still be contributing 850 per month to my household income. Twenty four seven care privately paid can cost 10 grand per month and in many cases much more than that. We do what we can for our loved ones and we work it out the best way we can, this is our way and it works perfectly. Truth be told, if my mother was in her right mind she would be horrified at the small stipend of money she is contributing to me. I love her, we make do.
Good luck to you, prayers.
In regard to Medicaid laws, you might want to check with your local Medicaid office. You could ask to speak with a financial worker about the rules in your state. But in general, most seniors living on their own who go into a nursing home or other care facility are previously paying living costs, whether they are in their own home or renting. In fact, if your mother were not paying a dime to you and her savings were growing and growing, she might have a harder time qualifying when she needs Medicaid because she might be at risk for being over resource limits. By paying rent, she is contributing to her living expenses, just as she would if she were living on her own, which Medicaid expects as an expense. When applying for programs, Medicaid often asks for a LOT of documentation which is proof of a person's income, assets and expenses. As you will need to provide this information someday, I would recommend having something in writing, like a lease and writing your mother a rent recipt each month, to have a record of proof to show Medicaid in future should they ask.
That's why.
Does this mean I am not grateful to my parents for loving me and looking out for me? Does it mean I do not thank my late mother each and every day for passing along to me her love of music, and for forcing me to study it when I was a kid (a thing that I hated at the time, but which has given me so much joy as an adult that it makes me tremble to think how easily I might have missed out on it)? Does the fact that I fervently believe no adult child "OWES" his or her parents anything in the way of "payback" for being born -- a viewpoint which my mother fervently shared, by the way -- mean that I did not do everything I could to help care for her when she was struggling with her terminal cancer, or that I am not doing everything I can now to help my father as he struggles with a progressive dementia?
Of course not. But I have not cared for my parents because I believe I owe them a moral debt for creating me, or for fulfilling the obligation they took on when they chose to do so. A contract – moral or legal -- cannot exist where one party cannot be consulted or agree to it.
Everyone can agree: When you have a baby, you are “giving” that person life. But some people don’t seem to think this through to the logical conclusion – which is that you are also condemning him or her to death (and more than likely, a painful one, because most deaths are). You are “giving” your baby the opportunity to discover all the good things life has to offer – friendship, love, beauty, truth, and awesome, wonderful moments of joy, happiness, and exhilaration. But you are also ensuring that he or she will experience all the bad things, too – fear, boredom, despair, betrayal, cruelty, grief, loneliness, depression, and pain. Making the choice to inflict life – ALL of it, both the good AND the bad – on another human being is an awesome responsibility ... and a completely one-sided one. If you elect to do it, you SHOULD feel a moral responsibility to make whatever sacrifices you have to in order to give that human being the best possible start that you can. Making these sacrifices for your child does not make you a saint – and it does not entitle you to mortgage any part of your child’s finances, freedom, or emotions at any point in his or her adult life.
For my part, I strive to treat my father with love, care, kindness and respect, not because he and my mother brought me into the world or took care of me when I was a child, but because he has always tried to treat me in the same way. I would do the same for any of my siblings or close friends.
I can tell you what kind of human being my sister is. She took in our 92-year-old mother who has dementia. She charges the same rent as what Mom was paying for her subsidized housing. Everyone in our family thinks that is perfectly fine. What else is mother supposed to do with that money? Save it to give us each a small inheritance? Nonsense. And mother would not have moved in with her on a "charity" basis. She is proud of being able to pay her own way.
What kind of a human being is Sis? She was an awesome mother to 3 young boys and now to adult sons and daughters-in-law. (She is the one I would have wanted to raise my boys if I couldn't.) She is an active and caring grandmother. She is loving wife to an awesome husband. She is smart, and had a very responsible job before taking early retirement. She's been poor and she's been comfortable and she's been happy through it all. She is creative and practical. She is extremely generous. She is both kind and no-nonsense firm. She is the best cook in our family (which is saying a lot). She has never expected anyone to give her a free ride for anything. She has worked for what she has and she is cheerful about it. She and her husband continue to actively run a youth bowling league, years after her own children are grown. She would help nearly anyone with whatever she could, and she is no one's doormat.
In short, she is a caring, responsible family member and citizen. The world would be a better place with more people like Sis.
I help her with everything...meals, laundry, showering, washing hair, styling hair, going for lab work, doctors appointments, picking up her medications and making sure she takes them in the morning, lunchtime, and bedtime, and picking up her favorite foods and treats...not to mention checking on her when I am not home to make sure she is okay, etc. These are things I had to fit into my life when she moved in with me...I love her and don't mind being her caretaker...and I appreciate what she contributes to the family. She even tells me she wants to pay her own way.
Yes, she did carry me for nine months and raised me but she brought me into this world so that's what parents do for their children....just like I've done and continue to do for mine. This doesn't mean a parent shouldn't contribute if they can afford to do so. Just sayin...
It is best to have the rental agreement or care agreement in writing, to avoid any future misunderstandings.
I think it is important to give our parents the dignity of paying their own way, as long as they can and within their means.
HOWEVER ... if she has been paying you rent, remember that this counts as "rental income" to you, and you are required to report it as such on your yearly tax return. Similarly, if you are charging for caregiving services, you must report that as personal income on your tax return.
Although I have no personal experience with this, I wonder if Medicaid is able to require a person in your position to submit copies of your own tax returns to prove that you have been reporting any such income that you are claiming as rent/payment for services rather than gifts from your mother. And if you have not, what happens ... do they then pronounce all such payments as "gifts" that must be paid before they will start to kick in money towards your Mom's care? Or do they report you to the IRS for not filing your returns correctly?
I would love to hear from an expert on this topic.