87 yr old MIL lives in CA, a filial law state, and she has two sons (I'll call them Son1 and Son2) who live within a 30 minute drive. My husband (Son3) & I do not live in CA. She has steadfastly refused to make a will, assign any POAs, living wills or anything remotely related to estate planning. She is a hoarder too, very stubborn, selfish, unreasonable and manipulative. We've asked many times in the past what her plans for the future were, and she just refuses to talk about it. Her ex passed away over 10 years ago; she's on her own and has been for 50 years.
Plumbing issues at her hoarder home displaced her to a nearby extended stay hotel, which was supposed to be temporary. She has now lived there six months without making any progress on fixing her home. She refuses help from a nearby Son1 who has offered to just get the work done by contractors. He took her on tours of independent living places early on in this plumbing issue, and she wouldn't take the steps to become a resident. She hasn't picked up the mail from her house in three months. She refuses to sign the 50K check from her home insurance company over to the contractors who have completed some remediation work already. Son2 basically doesn't want to have anything to do with her.
Son3 has flown out (we live over 1000 miles away) twice in the past three months to deliver her mail to her, even though the hotel she's staying at is only 5 minutes from her house and she has her car with her. She hasn't paid her bills, her credit cards started being rejected since she was over her credit limit, various insurances have lapsed, her medications have run out, but the woman HAS money and the assets to pay what she needs to pay. Son3 spent time last week setting up her credit cards on autopay, and getting her past-due accounts cleared up, renewing insurance policies and such. But it is not sustainable for him to keep flying out at great expense and do these menial tasks.
She has deteriorated both mentally and physically in the past few months, and I can't see how this doesn't end without her ending up in the hospital when a housekeeper finds her collapsed in the hotel room, or she falls and breaks a hip. And when she dies then there will be the whole intestate probate to deal with. She doesn't share any financial information with any of her children, although on this last trip that Son3 made, she had to at least share her checking account, savings account, and credit card information with him in order for him to take care of making payments. She made him an authorized user on one of her credit cards, and I don't know if this was the right decision or not.
My goal is to shield my husband from any financial and legal liability, and any claims of elder abuse. Is it best to consult with an elder care lawyer? And a probate lawyer to find out what to expect when she passes? They would have to be practicing in the state of CA, right? Does the CA filial law extend beyond the state's borders? Does entering her house - with a passcode - to pick up her mail constitute breaking and entering? I don't trust her to not scream "elder abuse" at everything at this point. No one has harmed her, but if neglect is considered elder abuse then I could see that happening as all three sons are getting near the end of their willingness to engage with her.
For you, there is no financial obligation here for you or for your husband, her son.. Filial law is NEVER imposed these days. The only case of filial law I EVER heard of is the case of an elder with no money and an extremely wealthy son in some state a decade ago. I doubt you can find a single case out there. If you worry about it see an attorney to relieve your mind. Tell brother number whatever that he is a fool to get all embroiled with this having no idea what he is doing with her money. HE is the one who can be accused of elder abuse. Not YOU.
Leave your MIL alone or report her to APS and let them handle it if they consider her a senior at risk. Let THEM handle it as in State guardianship; let them know your mother will not cooperate with you. She doesn't have to. It isn't against the law to hoard or to be crazy or to neglect yourself. And no family is obligated to step in. If some family DOES step in then let them and stay out of it. Don't participate. Refer them to an attorney.
As to will, I doubt there is little in this estate to pass on, but when she dies the family will be notified and can check deeds and records. A Trust and Estate or Probate Attorney will let the next of kin file probate if there is anything TO probate, appoint an administrator willing to serve and divide whatever is left (read nothing but a demolition-worthy home, in all likelihood.)
As I said, no one can save this woman from herself.
No one is OBLIGATED to try to save this woman from herself. And people dabbling around with her bills and her credit cards and paying them out of their own money aren't a great deal more wise than MIL is.
And, sure. See that attorney. You will feel lots better when you are reassured of all that. You and your husband are under NO OBLIGATION.
Do know, when/if the state takes guardianship of Mom they are the ones who have to do all the POA work, with their court appointed attorney who will, as her Fiduciary get Mom diagnosed, treated, placed as needed. That person will handle the estate such as it is. Family will have no say. Which trust me, is for the best.
I think what needs to be done is APS called. Tell them the situation that MIL needs to be evaluated. That she will not allow her sons to help in any way. You feel she can no longer care for herself and needs to be placed for her safety.
If APS is called and they determine her unable to care for herself, I thought they couldn't put her somewhere against her will? Part of her refusal to voluntarily become a resident of an independent living facility was that she didn't want to be in a place with "those people" (whoever she means by "those people") as well as she's lost her hoard and feels lost and alone without it (my interpretation of her feelings about her hoarder house). Can APS forcibly put her in a facility with more services available? Her current hotel situation is arguably much safer for her physical needs than her actual home right now.
What kind of attorney is the appropriate type to consult in this situation?
She sounds like someone with severe mental illness/personality disorder. Trying to provide care is hopeless; read Liz Scheier's "Never Simple" if you want a good example of that.
Have you ever heard of F.O.G.? As is Fear, Obligation and Guilt? There is a nice website called Out of the Fog that might be useful.
https://outofthefog.website/
The good thing about getting APS involved is that they can have the state file for emergency guardianship. Someone with guardianship can force place (the problem is that if YOU have guardianship, it's more difficult; most "nice" facilities don't take forced placements).
The sad fact is that cooperative elders get good care; stubborn, feisty, "independent" elders get force placed into Medicaid facilities that are probably not so nice.
If your husband can do it, it MIGHT be worth it to say "mom, you can cooperate and we will place you someplace lovely. Otherwise, we will walk away and strangers will take over.". It's worked on a LOT of older folks and it is the truth.
No, some States still have them on their books. Doesn't mean they will be used but does mean there is a potential.
Heck, even Dr. Laura, the holier-than-thou, "take care of your parents regardless of how awful they are" advocate found her own mother had been dead in her Beverly Hills home for three months because Laura was estranged from her and didn't do her filial duty of checking on her.
https://www.longtermdisabilitylawyer.com/2017/01/filial-responsibility-laws-make-responsible-parents-final-long-term-care-bill-ii/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20it's%20important%20to%20note,responsibility%20to%20a%20considerable%20degree.
She says get on with your grown life. You are an adult.
You are not responsible for this and you cannot fix this.
I would step aside. Allow her to deal with the results of not paying bills on her own.
Recommending a book by Liz Scheier, a memoir about her mother's mental illness. She attempted for decades, along with the city and state of New York, to help her mother. To ABSOLUTELY no avail.
Has MIL been reported to Adult Protective Services by you, hotel, anyone? She needs to be. She needs the state to become her guardian so that she can be placed someplace safe. Her assets will be sold to pay for her care
Be grateful that your husband doesn't have POA or he would be trying to arrange for care she won't accept.
That's the first time I've seen the lack of POA being used as a beneficial status, but I see your point. Does lack of POA actually help if she tries to claim neglect from her sons as a form of elder abuse?
>>Op said her husband was added as a user on one of mil’s credit cards, which makes him responsible for the entire debt with possible credit ramifications for him and hence you as you’re married.<<
I find nothing to support this claim.
The credit card issuing bank's website clearly states:
"The bottom line is that when you have a joint credit card account, you are each legally responsible for the debt accumulated on that credit card.
Authorized users, on the other hand, are not legally responsible for balances they accumulate."
That's where I got the "not legally responsible for balances" part. But, since her credit rating will affect my husband's if she continues to be delinquent, then it's probably a good idea to remove him from her account anyway since his credit is currently excellent.
I have learned the hard way; and that is when dealing with someone who has created a mess for themselves by being stubborn, is to take a hand's off attitude. All it takes is one scream of elder abuse and bingo! The whole world is coming at you with pitch forks, knives and shovels like they did in the movie Frankenstein. No way!
I live a few blocks away from my father's house that he obtained full rights to after my mother passed away in 1988. He married his mistress, and now she has ownership of the home after he passed in 2014. I will not fight over that dilapidated mess. That place can rot to the ground after stepmom is gone. What will probably happen to the property if her girls don't take over, is that someone will buy it, and flip it making a ton of money since it is in an upscale neighborhood.
I saw what happened to my grandmothers house in NC after she died 1994. The house sat abandoned for years until someone bought it. The guy who bought it got old and sold it to a realtor. It was renovated and re-sold. This was over a thirty year period. That home sat abandoned for several years boarded up and falling down. It is now habitable again. So, I wouldn't worry about any of this at this point. I know; easier said than done.