Mom has a court-ordered guardian who wants to split her possessions among myself and one sibling. I think they should be sold for her care.

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Mom has a court-ordered guardian who wants to split her possessions among myself and one sibling. I think they should be sold for her care.

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Like I said in the title guardian wants to split possessions.

Here is the whole story.

Through a very contentious guardianship proceeding, it was agreed that an independent guardian would be appointed to care for my mom.

Since then, mom has been moved to a memory care facility. I know the plan is to sell the house. I was told months ago that her possession would be sold, but the children would have first opportunity to buy items.

Now, I have learned that the guardian wants to mark (or sticker) all items in house. One color for me, one for my sibling, and one that we don't care about. If we cannot agree to an item it will be marked for storage. Storage that my mother will have to pay for!

I do not believe this is in the best interest of my mother. Why would her things be given to us when they can be sold for her care? And if we cannot agree on the item - why should my mother pay for storage and this settled at her death?

Would a judge approve that my mother pay for storage of items that she will never use again?

By the way - my mom does not know where she is or who anyone is anymore. She has no mental capabilities anymore.

Should I challenge the guardian and say that these items should be sold or at least be paid for by myself and sibling?

Elder Law Guardianship Paying for Care

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I don't think there is anything ridiculous about the pain behind this battle over possessions. In fact, the battle isn't even about the possessions, it's about what the possessions represent as awards to each individual for his or her respective filial virtue and worth. It's hideous. I just want it to stop.

StoneMan, you could stop it now by... stopping.

Just imagine it, for a few minutes. You stop, by waïving any right to or interest in any of the chattels (I'm not forgetting the desk or the safe, or why they have importance, I'm just asking you to imagine that you consign them to the past). What then? What more could anyone do to you?

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Here, here CM! “Consign them to the past”.

Choose your battles, Stoneman. In the end are those items worth more anger and ill feelings?

I hope you find find some peace in all this.

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You say you offered sister everything in exchange for one item, I wonder if your proposal is brought directly to the judge whether they might find in favour of that rather than the guardian's proposal of storage (that's why they call them judges after all).

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I have even offered to pay for the items I wanted. I can't figure out why these things are not sold for my mom.

I really don't know how to propose this to the judge. I will go to clerk of court for help.

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Thanks everyone for your answers - I need some help with a question. I will try to clarify.

We had the meeting yesterday to split the possessions. It was about how I expected. It did not go well. The plan was to make 4 piles of possessions.

1. A pile for me that my sister has to agree on
2. A pile for sister that I have to agree on
3. A pile that we cannot agree on (this means these items will be put in storage)
4. A pile that we don't care about. (to be sold)

The guardian will petition the court for the items to be distributed about for 1 & 2.
The things that we cannot agree on, the guardian has said she would put in storage, where my mom will pay for storage. And sell the last items that are don't care.

Now my sister has indicated that she wants the entire house and will not agree to me having anything of value. I offered her the entire house if she would agree to the one item I cared about and she declined.

HERE is the question: 1. Would a judge approve the storage fees for my mom to pay for almost the entire house and a very large garage? I don't think this is in the best interest of my mom? Should the things be sold?

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I think really that you and sister are quite determined to keep this war going. I wish you both much good luck in it. The courts will enrich themselves on your battles and everyone will be happy. I am out. My best wish for your own health and happiness is that you are out, as well. I cannot imagine how much joy looking at that "secretary" when/if you finally win it will give you. But we are all different, and we are all made joyful by different things, so have fun. Wishing you the best. I am at this point all for King Solomon, non-believer that I am.

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I think property should be sold and money used for her care - isn't that correct fiduciarily speaking? Now, if we are talking about stuff that is not saleable, basically just junk, then it may be a different matter. Can you check with the court that appointed guardian?

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read my above response and give me your thoughts. These things definitely have value - antiques and expensive furniture

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More than likely, the sale of said items are NOT going to bring in enough $$ for her care. What you deem as valuable probably is not. I learned this myself, but my mother had already passed away.

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Let this conversation be a lesson to us all. Start getting rid of the extra "stuff" that we have in our homes. Sell, donate but don't make your kids be the ones responsible for it all. My dad had an absolute basement full of power saws, tools etc. as he was a cabinet maker, furniture builder etc. He could have sold them when he quit building but did he? NO! So then at 93 when we moved him and had an estate sale he felt he was ripped off for how little he got. Well...I fault him for not getting rid of them when he had a full brain and time. But we got the blame of course!

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Very wise answer Harpcat. I have spent the last year, 10 months emptying the "stuff" from my parents house. My Pop died 16 years ago. My mom is 88 (Alz) and living with my husband and I. There was stuff in all the attic spaces, stuff in the basement and crawl space, stuff in spaces that they could not possibly access anymore, stuff on the beds, under the beds, beside the beds, spilling out of clothes closets and linen closets. And the garage! Pop was also a woodworker - all the tools and machines, pieces/parts that could have been given away when he was still alive but unable to work with wood anymore. My mom doesn't know but I have given away her clothes (enough for 10 women), the china, crystal and silver, paintings and art work either to someone with a liking to it or to charity. I tried to give china, etc to my children but they did not want it. A different lifestyle and era. Now that the "stuff" is gone, I am finding leaking pipes, leaking radiators, rotten floors. I joke that the only thing that works in that 100 year old house is me.
The only good news is that I will absolutely never do this to my 3 children.
And yes, she was a hoarder.

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This arrangement should ensure that nothing gets put into storage. No need for that. If you want to sell the things given to you, you can. Then, that money can be used for your mom as you see fit. This is easier than you are perceiving it.

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Clearly as he want to sell the house he needs it empty. Perhaps his view is that over the years you have looked after your mum and should be "paid" for this - that would be difficult but if you sticker items in the house you are interested in he can give a valuation to them and then decide if that is in line with what he thinks you are "owed" or should have from the estate if mother has no will. I think he ought to sell items that no one is interested in but he needs to get a valuation of them to do that, this can be done at the house or at a facility - it probably depends where the sale of the house is what he needs to do. You have a generous attitude towards the items being sold for your mother, but most people have some items which have sentimental value to them. In a number of states of your mother dies intestate the house would go for any medical care costs, but anything left would be split between any souse 50% and children 50% between them - so he could also be reckoning the figures would fit with that. Why not ring him up and ask?

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You may have a point here - maybe this is about emptying the house of stuff that has no real value.

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Do all the siblings feel the same as you? Is it possible there are certain items in the house that someone would want because it has family/sentimental value to a certain person?

I don't understand why anything (not wanted by family member) would be put into a storage instead of just having an estate sale for leftovers. That part is puzzling and a waste of money for monthly storage fees.

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The siblings are not in agreement and that’s part of the problem. An estate sale may not be smart because it may cost more to have the sale than what the sale will bring in. The guardian has to be paid for their time and so would an estate sale company if one was used.

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You say: "I do not believe this is in the best interest of my mother. Why would her things be given to us when they can be sold for her care? And if we cannot agree on the item - why should my mother pay for storage and this settled at her death?"

I see several choices for you and your sister:
1) take the items guardian marks for each of you and attempt to sell them yourself.
2) have all items moved to storage, but you and sister pay the storage fee until you resolve the "split".
3) have all items donated (at least the ones the guardian doesn't plan on selling.)
4) put out a free sign - if there is a garage, it could be put there and let people take stuff.
5) pitch anything guardian isn't holding for sale.

Any money you **might** make from selling the items can be used for mom. Either give the funds to the guardian for mom's care or use it to purchase anything mom might still enjoy.

For the most part, unless you know something is worth some money, most home furnishings and other items are pretty much not worth much. As others have said, it could cost MORE to try to sell everything than they are worth (exception would be yard sale, as this would only cost you time/effort.) Although some items may appear to be antiquey, it likely isn't and there are tons of them out there, a dime a dozen. Anything worth keeping is something that YOU like or that has some sentimental value to you. Anything else, donate, put it out for free or yard sale it.

In one reply you say you want 2 items, in another you want to walk away and let sister have her way. YOU have to make that decision. If you decide you do not want to argue and agree to give up the "stuff", go to the meeting and say that. Suggest anything sis doesn't want go to donation, not storage. If guardian insists on "splitting" and using storage, offer to pay for the storage and then get rid of the stuff asap. A free sign at the garage or side of the road can sometimes work! My son has done that a lot with his wife's grandmother's "stuff" that has been sitting for many years in the house they rent from her mom!! The "stuff" generally disappears quickly!

Cleaning out mom's condo, my brothers took what they wanted. I only took a few items that could be useful. Most of the other "stuff" either went to neighbor for church rummage sale (random items), Goodwill (mostly clothes), a place near mom's that took furniture, including decent mattresses, or was trashed. WAY too much was hauled here to my place by one brother (most of her clothes - several truckloads!! - went to Goodwill, but at least 5 boxes of shoes, maybe another 4-5 boxes/totes of clothes that were missed, fake plants galore, linens, tablecloths, placemats, napkins, both linen and paper, etc etc etc are all cluttering up my place!!! I did NOT want this stuff, most should have been donated or tossed. I had enough to do without dealing with this crap, getting mom in a safe place and managing everything for her care, and just now, several years later, am going through it to make room that I need in my garage!)

If all else fails, PITCH IT ALL!

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Yep! Pitch it!

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I would sell it or give it away any way that your mom does not have to pay for it or keep it....

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Hooray! Someone who thinks like I do--that the sale of the possessions goes for the care costs! And that is exactly what I did when I sold my mom's house, and her furniture and appliances! The money is in the account earmarked for her CARE COSTS and they are great and increasing as her disease process and her age increases. I AM the recipient of her worldly possessions WHEN SHE DIES--but she ain't dead yet! And the costs are going up! If there is anything leftover, the I will get it--WHEN SHE IS DEAD, and NOT beforehand!

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My local urban market is flooded with used stuff (craigslist, resale shops, "estate sales", etc.). On my morning walks, I see the aftermath of such local sales: perfectly decent furniture, household items, and appliances that didn't sell left out for city pickup. Most of it disappears when passersby snag it first, but that doesn't put money in the previous owners' pockets.

The house is evidently to be sold, with the proceeds used for the mother's care.

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So my cousin recently had someone come in and set up a sale of the items in her parent’s home. Someone had come through and put big $ in her eyes when looking at the house and what repairs it might need before selling. Aside from a couple of chairs I don’t think anything was older than 1940. Most if what sold was the small stuff, kitchen dishes and pyrex pieces, the kitchen table. Her Grand Haul was $1,300.00 the seller took $400.00 and she owed the neighbor about $200.00 for item he put in the sale. On top of that she drove up there several weekends getting ready and had to pay for her Companion to go with her as she has limited mobility and the companion helped her get things ready for the sale. I’m sure the $700.00 she ended up with got eaten up with those expenses. Now she has to make another trip to arrange for the removal of the remaining items to trash or donate which had been her plan to begin with. Understandably there was no sibling to deal with and mother has been gone 20 years (father longer). So unless there is some big ticket item that people are going to come running for I’d go with what the Guardian is offering. Pick a piece or two that means something to you and let the rest be sold or let the sibling have it.

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I say if you both have POA and I pray at least one of you does have it, and if not, get it now, YOU can tell the caretaker what to do - they do not have the right to control things. I personally say sell what is not wanted or needed for her care and to store things is pure insanity. Don't do it. Talk to a good attorney and get involved in decisions made by the judge. These are her possessions and funds from them should go for her care, and I don't see how anyone with half a pea sized brain could argue with that. Good luck.

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Neither of them has a valid POA and neither of them can get one. Not only can their mom NOT assign a POA anymore, but she also has a court appointed guardian.

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Storage for long period is crazy - that's at least $100 per month & most of stuff will be tossed later

Selling these items is crazy too if you think there will be much money from them .... think about 5 to 10% of initial value so not much - why don't you & sibling take what you want but say to guardian that the 2 of you will take the other third to donate to charity or do a garage sale between you - however look under all items for a 'name' as there might be something of great value but don't hold your breath on it

You & sib will have taken the most sentimental items & rest has little value - here there is a community garage sale the Sat. after labour day so all the college kids can pick up what they need maybe that would work for you

The work to arrange selling this stuff is huge [I found this out with my mom & dad] for basically little money back - we asked an antique dealer to look over the things we didn't want but he only would take 5 things & then on commission only - the guardian charges a fee by the hour spent on this or has a flat fee depending where you live & it is not worth his/her time for the money recovered

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Let it go... it’s just “stuff”. We spend 1/2 of our lives collecting stuff, and then spend the other 1/2 getting rid of the stuff. If we’re lucky anyway.
if something of your moms has sentimental value to you, then by all means request the item.
otherwise, why worry about “stuff” ?

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Seems all parties need to meet and come to an agreement. I think the guardian is trying to avoid the "I really wanted that _____ to remember Mom by" scenario. Go through the place with the guardian. Sticker everything you want. Have others do the same. Agree on a date to remove everything. You could always agree to take leftovers and sell them to put into an account for Mom's care.

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Nope, I think guardian just wants the “stuff” to disappear. Less for guardian to have to do. It’s work getting rid of stuff.
yes, I’m a cynic.

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I'm just being practical here. I have no idea how many possessions you are talking about or how huge the job might be, but could you and/or siblings just choose all the things, sell them, and avoid the storage? you can put the money towards your mom's care then. If the job is very large, then maybe just get the estate sale going. There are some estate sale places that specialize in emptying houses for elders.

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A few questions/points.
1) Will mom have to apply for Medicaid at some point? If so then giving things away may not be a wise option.
2) Most "things" are not worth what people think they are worth. So selling may not produce that much in the way of income.
3) If the Guardian thinks it is necessary for the storage unit then the court will approve of it even though I agree it is a waste of money. Anything that can not be sold or that you or other heirs do not want could be donated to a local Charity. (Not much of a write off but some).
4) You have every right to go to court to let the judge hear your opinion.
5) while it may cost a % it might be wise to get someone in with Estate Sale background that can appraise what is in the house and get it ready for an Estate Sale that will draw more people. There are people that follow Estate Sale companies so look for one that has a good reputation and is known in your community. (and the % it will cost still puts more money in your mom's account than paying for a storage unit or giving things away. Although you should take a few pieces that mean something to you..if you want them)

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Great advice Grandma1954. Nothing to add but kudos to you!

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Sending loads of hugs and prayers to you. Recently lost our Mom and it was a long journey. Having read your story, I guess I have a question. Are you making this harder on yourself with dealing with a Court appointed guardian? When we had to move mother into Assisted Living we knew she would never again have need nor want all that "stuff" in her home. We did put some of her belongings from the house into storage. We later realized this was useless as Mother would never again be able to use any of it. Yes the house was sold and the money used for her care. My brothers and I were fortunate as we all agreed that disposing of the household items was what needed to be done. We divided them.

Not having the same level of cooperation I am suggesting that you take the things you want (to keep or sell). Then sell what you want and get your mother any of those things she may require that are not covered by the dollars paid to the facility she is living in. Be that clothing, creams, hair care, fingernail care, and the list goes on. You could also spend some on special treats (flowers or something special to her) Also you may be able to take a few pieces for her to have with here in her new home.

That way you will feel you are helping her and the costs are covered with money from her belongings. It can be a win/win for you and your mother.

Good luck, remember, be kind to yourself first, so you have the heart, strength, and health to give your mothers extra love and special attention.

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If you all have a good understanding then go ahead sell all her things and distribute to the kids with full understanding that you all put the money in an escrow and use it for her care in equal amount. This way it will be 1. She can get the care she needs and not worry after her time.

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My mom had a guardian and conservator appointed by the court. Very contentious between the twisted sissies and me. Many things were sold at an estate sale. Some things were split, which for the most part I chose to not participate. I was the caregiver, just did not care. Every squabble that occurs that guardian is charging your mom.

Putting things in storage, I agree does not make sense, at all.

Twisted2, mom's POA and executor, decided that mom's business assets would be put in storage, that happened four years ago now. TS2 tried to sell some, but had more an emotional attachment to the items. Just yesterday, the things were moved out of storage to my unfinished basement. Over the course of that four years storage cost in excess of $25,000.00. That is finally done. To spend that kind of money on something TS2 considered only worthy of donation was causing issues with closure of mom's estate.

So, Stone, the more you do not agree, the more it will cost mom funds that are needed for her care. Accept 1/2 of the things to keep or donate or give to others. Go with the flow to get done with it.

Estate sale would raise funds for items at a rate of pennies on the dollar. It is tough, I know. I actually was the one that asked for a court appointed guardian, the situation was out of hand. There was nothing I could have done that would have convinced my twisteds of anything. Work with the guardian to show that you can and will cooperate for your mom's best interest.

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If she has already been moved to a nursing home, and you sell the house, and the house is still under her name, won't the nursing home get the proceeds for the cost of her care? I thought under Medicaid a person can only have like $2,000 in their account and no more.

When she passes and anything that goes into probate, Medicaid can acquire under the Estate Recovery Law.

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Mother may not be on Medicaud. I don't see that mentoned. They may be paying our of pocket for care or instance plus self-pay. If they are self-pay, there is no problem with asset limits.

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I would make sure everything is stickered by you or sib. Take your stuff and sell it, use it for moms care. Nothing will be left for storage. Guardian has upper hand on this, but they cant tell you how to play your hand.

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I recently cleaned out my Mother's condo. Donated household things like pots, pans, dishes/glasses and small appliances to Goodwill. Donated furniture to The Salvation Army but note that they do not take mattresses or anything with glass like a glass top coffee table or mirrors. A company called "College Hunks Hauling Junk" took whatever leftover furniture Salvation Army did not want. We went to an auction house with "collectibles" like sterling silverware, Hummels/Lladro and Wedgewood and got about $2,500 for a car load of stuff. Definitely would NOT put stuff in storage, because you know in your heart that when Mom dies, the junk in the storage unit will go in the trash. Get rid of everything now. Good Luck.

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Forget it, You can't Fight City Hall, Although this seems like An Appall.
Guardianship gives her Court Rights and unless you go Broke with a good Lawyer, It could be Lengthy and hellish, Don't waste your Time. Let her Go.
Take what is Given and be glad she didn't Leave you and the Sibling Out.

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Can you just take everything your sibling doesn't want, then you sell it and you give that money to the guardian to use for Mom's care? Also, unless your mom has very very unique items most of her stuff will not bring in much money at an estate sell. I certainly see your point about not wanting to have her pay for storage.

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I am against storage as it ends up costing more than the value of the items. We did that with some of dad's furnishings when he moved from AL to LTC. Paid about $1000 to store and then I said enough and we donated them to Salvation Army. You can’t hardly give away used furniture...it’s ridiculous. Even young kids just starting out don’t want our stuff.
When we sisters went through dad and mom's items when we moved him to IL, we used stickers. There were 4 of us. If two or more of us put a sticker on the same item we drew a number from a bowl. The person with the higher number won the choice. You can also use a deck of cards. We accepted the decision and moved on.
Then we had an estate sale and donated what was left behind. You need to come up with an agreed upon method to dispose of these items and not store them.

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My family did this with my GM estate but rather than draw for each item with more than one sticker they rotated turns so for instance if my mom and her sister both wanted a table and my mom and her brother both wanted a chest she could decide which one to take as her first choice and either hope her sibling would choose something else first so she could choose the other item on her next turn. But they got along and this also included discussions about why someone wanted something (it was important to and for their child or grandchild) so there was a lot of agreement prior to the choosing even.

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I'd go ahead with the sticker plan, except for the part where "no one wants it" so it goes into storage. Instead just say, "okay I'll take it" Or let your sister have it and then if possible when you end up with it, sell it if you can and what won't sell give to charity. Then use the money for your mom.

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So try and get sister to agree about stickers, choosing things till the last picture hook is taken care of, keep what you want from choices, have an estate auction with what's left, put proceeds in an account that requires 2 signatures to withdrawal with your and your sister's name on it. Account is not in mom's name but extra funds are available for her if needed. No storage fees, no mess to deal with at a later date, upon mom's passing the two of you can then close out the remaining money from the account, having the bank issue exactly 1/2 to each of you.

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Mom has a court-ordered guardian who wants to split her possessions among myself and one sibling. I think they should be sold for her care.

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