My mother is losing her mind. Is it time for placement?

Next time she falls or gets violent - call 911 - have her taken to ER and explain to social worker her symptoms and that you can no longer take care of her in your home. The doctors and social workers will work to get her placed. She obviously needs medication, medication management, and 24/7 staff that can address her needs. This is way more than you are trained or can be expected to do. You will help her by helping her get the care she needs.

what about the guilt?? i feel bad about even thinking about it. 8(

I totally understand!!! Your mother will be angry with you. Think about it though - she obviously cannot care for herself, so you, as her loving daughter - have to see that she gets the care she needs. Even if she doesn't want it.

I had a friend who's grandmother was acting out so much and getting violent and her parents did the 911 route to get her checked in to geriatric psych unit. Horrible guilt, but grandma was helped significantly - it probably saved her life. The doctor said it was like having a drug addict that you had placed for treatment - you know it is needed, you do it, even though the addict denies need and is angry at you.

remind yourself - you are doing the best for your mom.

The other important thing - you do need to protect your child!!! If your mom is getting out of control and yelling at your child - that cannot continue. Get mom the help she needs!!

MTRX2010, you will get over the guilt. Read your last line, that she has put you in an "impossible" situation. I had to place my dad about 6 weeks ago into a dementia care facility (assisted living). It was horrible leading up to the "big day" and of course for a while afterward. But now I rest easy knowing that I had no other choice. None. Good luck to you. I had POA paperwork in hand, unfortunately we had to trick my father into the facility as he would not go willingly. Luckily he does not remember how he arrived there, he believes three men "ambushed" him and took him there. I am a 5 ft. tall woman and took him on my own.

wow. that sounds serious. i've always thought my mother needed to be in a mental institute to get help. she has always refused to see a physiologist or even a councilor. she promised me a year ago she would get help if i didn't leave so i stayed, then she refused to go. There's a zero level of cooperation. Almost seems like there's 2 people there. One refuses to carry out the plans the other makes, and sometimes can't even recall plans and conversations. some dating as far back between a week and 3MONTHS. she's forgetting important things from many periods of time, especially when it comes to making plans or agreements. So when it comes to fullfill a plan or something, she thinks things are happening all of a sudden, and gets angry at me, even though we've been planning them for months.

I don't want to do this, but i got my bag ready with my wallet, and all that. when she gets crazy again i'll make a video for the medical staff to see, and if she falls down, i'll dial 911 to come get her.

Does she has COPD by any chance ?

The reason I ask if she does she probably is a Co2 retainer and needs immediate care C02 retainers have 2 mind sets, alcoholic and 5 year old they have no in-between once it gets bad enough. Also she could have an untreated UTI that causes rage/delusions/falls/outbursts of swearing/seeming like they are drunk ext. You could have one or the other or both on your hands get your mom to the doctor ASAP and have her blood gas levels tested and have her tested for a UTI it could go septic if you let it go any longer.

I have been where your at several times you she needs immediate medical attention, my mother lashed out at my child but you need to keep calm and tell yourself something is wrong. My mom sometimes would have a UTI and high Co2 and see people and curse and not know where she was. She would fall and act crazy and we would have to call 911 and find out her Co2 was 125+ and she had a border line UTI sometimes all those things would happen and she would have one or the other but the key is fast treatment because it's not your mom it's her body reacting. My mom was in a care facility when she once came down with both, trust me a care facility won't notice till she becomes lethargic then they will do something. But that also comes with both being lethargic can be a huge sign plus lack of eating and drinking there are so many signs and it looks like you are seeing them all. Get help ASAP I beg you I have seen all this too many times so has my child. My mom just recently passed away from complications of being a C02 retainer.

wow. that's crazy. well no she doesn't have COPD or emphasyma or anything like that. doesn't complain about breathing problems. she quit smoking over 10YEARS ago, and she quit drinking about 10YEARS ago too. so she doesn't drink, smoke, or require oxygen. i know she recently got diagnosed with some borderline highblood pressure. she's also diabetic, neurophathy, arthritis, spinal stenosis, and a few other elderly conditions like that. -but i haven't heard anything about her breathing, and the doctor's haven't found anything to do with her breathing, or anything like that. o_O

MTRX2010, you've gotten some good answers so far. In addition to the things others have mentioned, your mother could have dementia. Those symptoms are entirely consistent with that condition. But we sure can't diagnose her from this forum! We can say that your mother is seriously, seriously ill. She needs medical attention. But she refuses it! What can you do?

If she is likely to harm herself or others -- pulling your hair?! -- in most states she can be involuntarily committed to a psychiatric ward or special facility for up to 72 hours, during which time she will be evaluated (as much as can be done without her cooperation), diagnosed, and a treatment plan created.

How can you initiate this 3-day commitment? The next time she is "mad" and threatening you, call 911, say your mother is having some kind of mental health episode and you are afraid she is going to harm you or your daughter. You need to have her removed from the house.

Another approach would be to call APS and explain that you have been trying to take care of your mother and she now needs more care than you can handle. You are moving out, with your teenage daughter. You love your mother, you don't want to leave her alone, but she refuses to allow you to arrange for help.

As to the guilt ... there is no way to avoid that. If things continue until mother descends into madness, you'll feel guilty that you weren't able to prevent that and help her and you'll feel guilty that you've exposed your daughter to this. If you take steps to get her help, even if that means she is evaluated against her will, you will feel guilty about that. In your situation I doubt you can totally avoid feeling guilty. (FEELING guilty -- not really being guilty!) Push those guilt feeling to the back of the mind, and don't let them make any decisions!

Has anyone on this forum used the Baker Act approach in Texas? Called APS? What was that like?

I agree with with above. Your Mom needs to be evaluated. I think you have enough on your plate without this. If you get her evaluated explain that u can't have her living with you. They may be able to place her until she stabilizes. There is a problem here.

I'm in florida, but I did use the baker act approach when my mom's dementia got out of control and she became very violent and confused all the time. I agree with others, call 911 or take her to ER. Explain she's having a mental breakdown and you can't handle it anymore. Then once they admit her to the hospital, ask immediately to see the social worker and make plans for her to NOT go back home. You have nothing to feel guilty about. Patients at this level need care way beyond what you can provide.

Mtrx, this is so hard, and you've gotten great replies. If no one else has offered this up, now is a good time for you to get a counselor or join a support group for the day-to-day coping. You deserve to be plugged in with people somewhere as you take these challenging steps! Good luck - you can do this.

I am at the other end of your situation. Mom continued to be so resistant that her health suffered considerably. When it became life-threatening such that I could not manage to keep her from imminent death (if you refuse to take liquids, you die in three days), I called EMS and that began the Hospital to Rehabilitation to Placement scenario. It will be crystal clear to a hospital or rehab social worker that you cannot manage her and you will receive a lot of help finding a placement. Regarding guilt: there is another kind of guilt to think of to balance this: your daughter's childhood and teenage years. I partially sacrificed my attention to my daughter while taking care of Mom for years starting about the time she was fourteen. It took two years of weekly psychologist meetings to handle her anger toward me for abandoning her for the benefit of my mother. It took another three years for her to come to understand how her flawed mother was torn between work to support us all, taking care of Mom, and then giving her the dregs of my being. Don't let this go on any longer for your daughter. You will live with this guilt far longer and more palpably than any guilt about placing your Mom in an appropriate healthcare facility.

I'll leave the nitty-gritty advice to the others. From an emotional standpoint, you and daughter need a residential separation from mom -- however that happens -- because you need to get your daughter out of that environment.

At age 14, daughter is still imprinting. Her home life is her primary influence regarding respect, self-esteem, boundaries and teamwork.

Daughter has already seen and heard too much abuse that's tolerated in the name of love and relationship status. Even if you tell daughter every day that she's awesome and grandma has no business treating her or you like that (and you probably do!), where does daughter lay her head down every nite to go to sleep? Where does daughter wake up every morning? What does she come home to every day after school?

I'm not picking on you. Your plate is full, indeed. But in the face of all acute drama, it's easy to lose sight of how these warped life-lessons are molding your daughter. If she is mature-beyond-her-years and functions as your sidekick, there's probably some "parentification" happening, too. Google it.

Daughter is living the perfect recipe to grow up and take emotional, physical or financial abuse from a man. I'm sure you don't want that for her.

Guilt?

Forget about guilt completely.

This is no time for useless sentiment. You need to think, act, pull up your big girl panties and do the right thing for everyone in the house.

Your mom needs to be seen by specialists who can help her and get her placed where she can receive the right meds and care. Talk to the police and the EMT, and her doctor!  Make a plan. The next time she has one of her screaming fits, dial 911 and get her to the hospital, as advised above. Don't wait for her to fall.

Once you do this, you will wonder what you were waiting for.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need an intervention. I agree, next time call 911 and have the EMS take her to the nearest emergency room. She needs to be admitted to a geriatric psych unit. They can get her on the right medications to control rage and behaviors. I recommend an assisted living who can handle her behaviors. if you can't afford an assisted living, then a nursing home who can provide services to meet her needs.

My Mama fell and broke her pelvis in 2 places. Went to the E.R. then trauma I.c.u. then too a skilled nursing unit in rest home. She went a little crazy in there because she has dementia but they found out she had a bad u.t.i. and that made her absolutely crazy. Yesterday she went to a mental health hospital for elderly. Already in 2 days They have gotten her off of Alot of medications and she seems way better. It could be so many things wrung with her that a hospital would be the best thing. Next time call 911. I did and its getting better now.

what is more important: mom who seems to have been abandoned (for obvious reasons) by the rest of the family. Or your child. Your first priority is your child. Period. You can feel all the guilt you want, but it is misplaced angst. You can feel sorry, but you have no choice in the matter. You may well have to wait for a fall to have her taken care of permanently: just getting violent and calling the cops may not work as she may be sneaky enough to be sweetie pie when they show.
Again, your child is your first priority.

Then you really need her checked for a UTI asap, if she doesn't have breathing problems she may have an underlying UTI that can cause everything you have describe. She can have one and not have a fever or smelly pee or any side effects that show my mom never did she just had them. No one ever wanted to test her for one because she didn't show symptoms. One was so bad it was septic and she was pulling IV's out of her arms. They didn't know what to test for and I begged them to test for a UTI when they finally did it was one and she was on an IV for 2 weeks and they didn't know if she was even going to make it. They are very scary if let go to long.

MTRX2010, just to echo what others have said, your mom really needs medical help. Her problems are beyond anything you can do for her as the situation is now. Your mom isn't that old, but sometimes infections will mess with an older patient's reasoning pretty badly (UTI's especially do a number but usually that's more an issue for someone in their 80s.) Someone here mentioned once that unchecked diabetes can cause a person to have issues with their cognition. Although it sounds like your mom has had psychiatric issues for awhile, there could also be another medical problem like that at play. So if you can get her to the hospital next time as the others have said, that's a good time to ask for them to run labs on her and to ask for a psychiatric evaluation.

Also, the stress you are under is going to make the guilt feelings worse. It is easy to get depressed and exhausted in this situation. Your own health is important. And as you probably remember, teenagers are really good at masking home-life stress. Your daughter only has a few more years of being a kid; she needs a secure, calm place as her foundation.

Regarding POA, you can call an attorney -- there are special elder law attorneys but it doesn't really matter what kind -- and they draw up the papers. POA is generally financial -- you are acting in your mom's place in terms of paying bills, signing checks. Then there's Durable POA which allows you to act on that person's behalf more broadly, and medical POA or health care proxy. I'm getting the impression it might vary state to state what you need to act for the person. (We had DPOA and that allowed us to speak to drs and make medical decisions for Grandpa in Michigan. ) The lawyer should be able to tell you what you need in this case and hopefully it will be a reasonable fee -- they should tell you ahead of time over the phone. Best of luck! You are good to stick by your mom even though she sounds like she might be a handful.

Thanks for the answers.
I found something out that scared the h*ll out of me, but before i mention it, a few people have mentioned they thought i was a woman. I'm not. Just a single father trying to hold what's left of his family together, and figure out whether i need to do the moral thing or the right, as they are not always the same thing unfortunately.

Today I went through my mother's medicines. I looked up all 3, and what I found freaked me the h*ll out.
She's on 3 different medicines for pain. Including Tramadol, gabapentin, and tizanadine.

I began looking them up, and found that mother has all the side effects to every single one of them!!!! -Including all the symptoms of serotonin syndrome.

The Tramadol is an SSRI/SNRI drug with opioid properties which is why they use it for pain, but it's really a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and it's known for causing serotonin syndrome. Side effects include: ANGER, AGITATION, RESTLESSNESS, and so forth on the mental side of things, all of which have been observed in my mother.

Next was Gabapentin.
Side Effects Include: AGGRESSION, AGITATION, INCREASED RISK OF SUICIDE!!!! All of which i've also mentioned she had!!!!

Next was Tizanadine which has a severe interaction with Tramadol and SSRI Drugs including UAC.

These drugs are driving my mother insane. I didn't include all the other side effects cuz there's too many, but she really has all of them, to all the drugs, including a drug interaction, and serotonin syndrome and all the symptoms those conditions include. All of which include driving a person bonkers, and ANGER.

I wrote her doctor a letter, told him everything that's going on, everything I found out about the drugs, all the symptoms and side effects, and jumped on my bike(not allowed to drive), and hauled it over to his office, and delivered it personally to his medical assistant, and told her exactly what was going on. She looked like she was in shock.

I told them they need to take my mother off all these psychologically active drugs for her pain, put her on something ordinary for now, and get her the referral to see my pain management specialist immediately. No if's ands or buts.

How could these people not know there was a severe and psychological drug interaction between the medicines they've been giving her?? I'm pretty p*ssed guys. And I don't really get angry, but this his caused me and my child so much heartache and difficulty, and to think this could be the direct influence of our problems.

The anger, rage, irritability, sobbing, speak of suicide, insomnia, confusion, memory lapse, these are all symptoms of her medicines, and overlapping with serotonin syndrome, and the aforementioned drug interaction. My mother is literally going insane. -And from what i've been finding it's word for word the side effect symptoms.

They're going to call me ASAP, and see about having the emergency appointment moved up to get her off the pills and on something safer for pain, and then im dragging her over to the hospital to get a catscan and get her headchecked for possible brain damage, and having her evaluated. I'm scared these doctor's she's with now may have caused her serious harm mixing all these neuropathic drugs.

Look up these drugs, and you'll find Anger or some synonym of such on each of their side effect lists. This is insane. I had noticed some behavioral differences a few years back when they started putting her on it, i had noticed little things, but wasn't sure. She's been on this garbage for years, so who knows how extensive the damage is, and who knows how many years of our lives have been hurt over this crap.

I know what my mom looks like drunk, and come to find out those days she would walk around looking and acting drunk, she was on the 2 drugs that have interactions at the same time. They're not even potent drugs, and she takes less than prescribed, but I think when it comes to side effects and drug interactions-all bets are off.

I'm praying this is the problem, and that there's still hope of getting my mother back. -And if it turns out they've caused her irrevocable damage to her brain to where she's going to be pissed off and demented all the time-then I will undoubtedly have to put her into a facility.

I've been crying, praying, and just devastated these past few days. I only get up to eat and use the bathroom, and spent 2DAYS hiding under my blanket and pillow just occasionally checking up here to see if anything's come up.

I always hear about drugs driving people crazy, but aside from illegal drugs, never really thought i'd see it, especially in one of my own family members. a few years ago, my mom was totally in love with my kids, baking breads, and buying presents, and now she's a total monster, and can't stand the site of us.

Earlier before I told my mother what I discovered, I overheard her sobbing, saying what's wrong with me, why lord, I love my granddaughter so much, why am I like this. So I waited a little bit, and went in there, and told her what I had discovered-and read off all the side effects of her drugs, and all the symptoms of the drug interactions and serotonin syndrome which I had already observed in her, and she confirmed every single one. She got really scared, and started crying and tell me about more of her symptoms which all seem to correlate to the aforementioned medical conditions. She even said when she quit using the gabapentin so much a few days ago, her sleep had improved, and so had some of her neuropathic symptoms including the weird twitches, spasms, and hard tremors she's been getting. tremors FFS. she said she's been freezing, and no matter how many blankets she uses she can't get warm-which turns out to be a side effect. She then told me she sweats at night sometimes so bad, she wakes up wet-also a symptom. This list goes on and on.

Does anyone here think I'm on the right track?? I sure hope so, I hope it's something that can be fixed.
Maybe I shouldn't wait for the doctor to call back-and just take her straight to the hospital??

actually, it does. trouble is, she may still need to be observed to change/remove the drugs. this happened to my mom: some of them apparently caused some of the problems and, after she fell the first time, they really tweaked the drugs. Improved things for a while

@twocents medicines started driving your mom bonkers?? o_O

infact has anyone seen this before involving medicines and side effects, interactions, and serotonin syndrome.

We're all of these meds prescribed by the same doctor and filled at the same pharmacy?

Be really careful when you take your mom off these meds; it sounds like the doctor is going to help -- that is good! Tramadol has nasty side effects if stopped abruptly. (The rehab made that mistake with my grandpa. Luckily my mom figured it out ; he ended up getting back on it and was fine.)

I am so sorry this is happening to your mom. I had not heard of serotonin syndrome before you posted -- that is really interesting. How long has your mom been on these medications? (Sorry if you already told us and I missed it.)

I hadn't heard of Tizanadine before, but my grandpa was on Tramadol and Gabapentin at the same time for several years and was ok, but he was really sturdy (over 6' tall and husky) and had no other serious health issues. They took him off gabapentin after a while. These are both drugs that have a lot of potential side effects, as you said. I can see why you are concerned and I hope that they find out that this is what is causing your mom's trouble and without lasting effects!

Boy, I really do not understand why doctors don't look into drug interactions more closely. Good for you for researching this, and good for you for talking to your mom! It sounds like you made a break through with her. She sounds like she's been suffering too. I hope these doctor and medical staff stick by you and help straighten things out.

@barbbrooklyn yes all from the same clinic and pharmacy which is one of things that's blowing my mind right now. how on earth did someone not pickup that 2 of these drugs have a severe and dangerous drug interaction between the 2??

@lindylu yeah i understand. I was on tramadol once, and it made me incredibly sick, it made me so sick so fast they had to take me off it immediately. I had to be on it for a few weeks while transitioning between pain doctors. I was with this one guy who almost killed me, so i had to get away from him, and the new doctor has me on standard pain medicines. morphine ER and Oxycodone IR, and i feel better than ever I have since I fell off the cliff. -and i don't get any crazy side effects like tramadol and nueroton, i've been on both of these, and they both made me very sick. a doctor told me since me and mom are related our sensitivity to these particular drugs could be hereditary. i.e....similar chemistries = similar sensitivities sometimes.

She's been on these drugs for years, and i've always noticed weird stuff with them since she started taking them, so who knows how extensive the damage is. I hope taking her off these neurological drugs, which weren't designed for pain to begin with, helps fix the issue. I think either way she's going to have to go the hospital for close monitoring. i'm scared.

I am really sorry. You know, it's really good that you put all this together. When my friend was in her residency, she did a geriatric rotation and when she asked senior patients what Rx'es they were on, she had more than one pull out a jar with all the pills mixed together. One told her he just poured a handful a couple times a day and took them like that. I know this is scary and overwhelming, but your mom has you there looking out for her, and that is a lot more than many people have.

My family tends to have a few neurological issues and doctors never seem to take those into consideration when they recommend prescription or over-the-counter meds. It is really baffling.

Well, it sounds like it's been a hard time for your family, but it is really good that you talked to your mom's doctor and that they seem to be taking things seriously. I hope they can figure out quickly what is happening and then begin to straighten things out for her. Keep us updated.

MTRX2010, I think maybe the best part of your discovery is that now your mother sounds like she will cooperate to find out what is wrong with her. No having her committed against her will. Good!

Those drugs don't always cause those side effects, obviously, or they would be off the market. Has your mother shared the symptoms with the doctor, or just kept getting prescription renewed? Doctors can't treat what they don't know about.

As for the drugs that have interactions, I am amazed that the pharmacy did not catch that. There was a certain drug that when I picked it up for my husband the pharmacist explained that there was a possible interaction with another drug he took. His doctor explained that she knew that but under the circumstances the benefit outweighed the risk. I agreed. But each time I got one of those meds, the pharmacist gave me the same warning. Doctors may sometimes not be viewing the entire medication picture, but pharmacists sure do! Or at least ours does.

But regardless of how this happened, it will be marvelous if tweaking her pain medications will restore her good nature and her sanity!

You say she has had some mental health issues all her life but this extreme behavior is new within the last few months. She's been taking this drug combination much longer than that, right? What happened a few months ago that might have triggered a change?

This sounds so hopeful! I'd give her primary doctor a few days to take some action -- better to go to the hospital on his referral than to show up on your own. Don't stop any meds cold turkey without the doctor's advice.

Please, please keep us informed on how this works out.