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You need to give more background. Some elders have to be placed far away if there are certain medical circumstances. Foe example: morbid obesity, psych issues, ventilator care, and dialysis. My neighbor's sister was so obese that local facilities did not have a heavy hover lift. Sister only had one place in her state 90 minutes away. She was eventually moved closer to home but her sister hired legal help and had to move her, change her address and Medicare to the next state
I had to do a mental hygiene order on my mom back in 2019. The facility she was in closed, but when that facility closed my dad had given me MPOA. My brother used an old form to get MPOA. So once she was transferred he had MPOA. The family has asked & pleaded with him to move her closer and he won’t.
What is brothers reason for having mom 2.5 hours from family? Having her nearby means family could at least visit, which is the number one incentive for nhs to at lesst put in an effort. He doesn’t have to even be involved being he’s still 1.5 hours away.
The reason she’s in a facility is because I had to file a mental hygiene order on her in 2019. I was given MPOA by my father, then her case closed. Then facility closed and my brother used an old form to gain MPOA. And is now keeping her away from family including her spouse
Is your Mother on Medicaid? It's possible there were not beds closer in to him or others. In my SFIL's case his legal guardian placed him 1 hour away in a newer, nicer rural facility that had open Medicaid beds. We requested he be moved closer so that it wasn't such a long drive to take my MIL to see him. But then the facilities closer in were much worse.
You should just ask your brother the reason. It could also be the cost if she's privately paying for it.
Below in a response the OP referenced a "mental hygiene order" which seems to be similar to a Baker Act...
"A mental hygiene order is a type of warrant that allows for involuntary hospitalization."
So, when your brother says she is stable there, he apparently means she is mentally stable. Perhaps he went through a lot to get her to that condition and moving her would upend this. Maybe she had to go to a specific facility that was more capable to deal with whatever her mental/cognitive issues were when admitted. Maybe he's burnt out and doesn't want to reinvent the wheel in getting her moved.
You say that your brother has basically "stolen" POA "old forms". This sounds like a legal issue. I would consult an attorney. You may need to seek guardianship. However, that is a very tough job, so before you request guardianship from the courts you should look up the duties of a guardian in your state. They are onerous in many cases. Wishing you the best of luck.
Quite honestly “rarely gets visitors” is the norm for residents in a facility. Even for those who have family in the same city or town.
Im curious on the “mental hygiene” stuff. What was that all about? My gut feeling is this and its fallout is the big overriding factor as to why your Bro is so set on her staying where she is. Mental Hygiene is used often in NY as this State has pretty detailed information on how it can be used. Theirs seem to have a whole requirement for “civil confinement and intensive supervision”. Most facilities will not take this type of resident as they cannot meet the requirements that State fully expects of them for someone who enters under “mental hygiene Act”. It’s flat going to need more staff time to keep tabs on someone, monitor their medications and interactions with others, etc. NH have huge staffing issues right now, so not taking in a heavier workload for staffing type of resident is the thing to do. There truly may not be another place that will take her.
Was any of her problems inappropriate sexual stuff? Mental hygiene gets used often for that. It’s a way to have law enforcement/ APS get them out of the community without having to do an arrest and then jail / prison placement. Sexual stuff often is kept as secrets in families. You may want to, without being all judgmental, go into what her health history and her behavior has been to see what her red flags are for being viewed as a difficult long term care placement.
VanScyoc78 you keep saying that your FATHER gave you MPOA for your mother. Please understand - he CANNOT do that. Once MPOA is established, if it is invoked and the principal is no longer able to make choices for themselves, that cannot just be transferred to whomever the current MPOA likes legally. It requires actual legal action to change.
It is a legal designation. And the only way a new one will be named is if the original resigns - and if there are no others named, the courts have to get involved.
So I think you are misunderstanding what happened.
Blueeyed is correct. Dad cannot give you POA for Mom. She has to assign it. POA cannot be transferred.
Medical POA does not get someone into care. Financial POA does. The facility needs to know how a residents finances are. Can they afford the care. The MPOA is limited. It is used to make sure the principles wishes are carried out. If something is not covered in the directive, then MOA makes the decisions. MPOA also talks to Medical staff.
Maybe Mom was placed where she is because this is the place equipped to care for her. If she is doing well there, then I would leave well enough alone. Visit once or twice a month and rent a room somewhere and spend the night.
If mom is already on Medicaid, that bed might have been the only one available. You can challenge the POA if you want to hire legal help. You first might want to make an inquiry about Medicaid rules in her state to determine if changing locations will be easy or difficult. An interstate move is even more difficult if this is investigated. Will she need professional transportation at your cost? As for as updated POA, I asked an elder lawyer. My mom had a legal form for MPOA assigned to me. Someone came into her IL to give a lecture on documents. My mom re wrote a new MPOA and designated my brother. It was witnessed at her IL during this program. The elder lawyer told me that the new one went into effect. My brother and I found out about the new document since it was on her refrigerator when she was taken by EMS and we were told at the hospital that he was now her MPOA. This is not what my brother wanted because I had the medical background. It was not long afterward that I did have to file for guardianship and she was declared incompetent my her PCP for court records.
Wow. So sorry that you and your brother had to go through all that needlessly. I know the elder lawyer was probably just trying to assist those who had no POA, but really messed things up for your family.
I feel like there are important details missing from your story. You say your father had given you MPOA. POA of your father? or your mother? or both? Is your father still living? When you say your brother used an old form to get MPOA, what does that mean? If you had MPOA, you still should.
And you state your brother is "keeping her away from family" - Why? You mean, intentionally keeping her far away? I can't even think of a reason for anyone to do that, unless the facility she is placed in is the best suited for her needs.
The short answer to your question, the person who has MPOA can and should place their loved one in an appropriate care setting. The fact that it is far away is not an abuse of their responsibility. Unless you can prove he has some nefarious reason for doing so, like punishing her or family. Or he is saving a lot of money, hoping for a larger inheritance.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It’s literally the entire point of a poa.
Who is the GENERAL POA, because they have the ability to override MPOA decision.
When brother is asked why mother was placed so far from everyone else, what does he tell you?
Is your Mother on Medicaid? It's possible there were not beds closer in to him or others. In my SFIL's case his legal guardian placed him 1 hour away in a newer, nicer rural facility that had open Medicaid beds. We requested he be moved closer so that it wasn't such a long drive to take my MIL to see him. But then the facilities closer in were much worse.
You should just ask your brother the reason. It could also be the cost if she's privately paying for it.
"A mental hygiene order is a type of warrant that allows for involuntary hospitalization."
So, when your brother says she is stable there, he apparently means she is mentally stable. Perhaps he went through a lot to get her to that condition and moving her would upend this. Maybe she had to go to a specific facility that was more capable to deal with whatever her mental/cognitive issues were when admitted. Maybe he's burnt out and doesn't want to reinvent the wheel in getting her moved.
This sounds like a legal issue.
I would consult an attorney.
You may need to seek guardianship. However, that is a very tough job, so before you request guardianship from the courts you should look up the duties of a guardian in your state. They are onerous in many cases.
Wishing you the best of luck.
Even for those who have family in the same city or town.
Im curious on the “mental hygiene” stuff. What was that all about?
My gut feeling is this and its fallout is the big overriding factor as to why your Bro is so set on her staying where she is. Mental Hygiene is used often in NY as this State has pretty detailed information on how it can be used. Theirs seem to have a whole requirement for “civil confinement and intensive supervision”. Most facilities will not take this type of resident as they cannot meet the requirements that State fully expects of them for someone who enters under “mental hygiene Act”. It’s flat going to need more staff time to keep tabs on someone, monitor their medications and interactions with others, etc. NH have huge staffing issues right now, so not taking in a heavier workload for staffing type of resident is the thing to do. There truly may not be another place that will take her.
Was any of her problems inappropriate sexual stuff? Mental hygiene gets used often for that. It’s a way to have law enforcement/ APS get them out of the community without having to do an arrest and then jail / prison placement. Sexual stuff often is kept as secrets in families. You may want to, without being all judgmental, go into what her health history and her behavior has been to see what her red flags are for being viewed as a difficult long term care placement.
It is a legal designation. And the only way a new one will be named is if the original resigns - and if there are no others named, the courts have to get involved.
So I think you are misunderstanding what happened.
Medical POA does not get someone into care. Financial POA does. The facility needs to know how a residents finances are. Can they afford the care. The MPOA is limited. It is used to make sure the principles wishes are carried out. If something is not covered in the directive, then MOA makes the decisions. MPOA also talks to Medical staff.
Maybe Mom was placed where she is because this is the place equipped to care for her. If she is doing well there, then I would leave well enough alone. Visit once or twice a month and rent a room somewhere and spend the night.
As for as updated POA, I asked an elder lawyer. My mom had a legal form for MPOA assigned to me. Someone came into her IL to give a lecture on documents. My mom re wrote a new MPOA and designated my brother. It was witnessed at her IL during this program. The elder lawyer told me that the new one went into effect. My brother and I found out about the new document since it was on her refrigerator when she was taken by EMS and we were told at the hospital that he was now her MPOA. This is not what my brother wanted because I had the medical background. It was not long afterward that I did have to file for guardianship and she was declared incompetent my her PCP for court records.
You say your father had given you MPOA. POA of your father? or your mother? or both? Is your father still living?
When you say your brother used an old form to get MPOA, what does that mean?
If you had MPOA, you still should.
And you state your brother is "keeping her away from family" - Why?
You mean, intentionally keeping her far away? I can't even think of a reason for anyone to do that, unless the facility she is placed in is the best suited for her needs.
The short answer to your question, the person who has MPOA can and should place their loved one in an appropriate care setting. The fact that it is far away is not an abuse of their responsibility. Unless you can prove he has some nefarious reason for doing so, like punishing her or family. Or he is saving a lot of money, hoping for a larger inheritance.