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Has your husband been found incompetent to handle his affairs. If not, unless the POA is immediate, he is still in charge. The person assigned POA responsibilities are to the Principle and what the principle wishes. Not to make sure there is money for their inheritance. If you husband is still competent to make his own decisions, see if he can do a codicil to his POA. This way he can add on that if he needs to be placed in an AL that this is his choice. Maybe having at least 2. The one he wants and another being second choice. The POA will havevto abide by husbands wishes.
Please, protect yourself. You have 17 yrs in this marriage and have contributed in some way. Right now you are a Caregiver.
An update in response to Frances73. My Dad just died a month ago, and spent several months in Memory Care as opposed to LTC or AL. His monthly cost (private pay) was $12,900 a month. I looked into several facilities, and there wasn't much difference for whatever reason. This is in an extremely rural area in the Northeast. Decades ago, when my MIL entered AL and then moved on to LTC, her costs were significantly lower, at around $5,000 a month in an urban area in the Northeast.
Although the kids, in this case, may think they can find a "low-cost" facility, it may not remain so for long. It is not up to them to decide, of course. For private pay, it's all expensive for normal folks who have worked hard all their lives and saved up.
As others noted, there are questions due to lack of some information.
Is your husband still competent? Is/are his needs medical, cognitive or both? Have the "kids" given a reason for their choice?
IF your husband is still competent, then POAs should not be in effect yet. It can depend on what type of POA and/or what conditions would activate them. We don't know what those are, so it is difficult to second guess.
Also, POAs generally are only for managing specific things like bill paying, signing some documents, some investing. POAs do NOT give the appointee the power to decide when or where someone lives. Repeat DO NOT.
You indicate the "Eldest son is his POA for investments" - if it is only for investments, then he manages how the funds are invested, but he would have no control over regular income? Most likely if your husband moves to a facility, the "investments" would come into play. IF he moves to ANY place, whether it's his choice or theirs, the POA would legally have to distribute the needed funds. It is NOT the POAs decision where or how much, it is their duty to MANAGE it as if they are the person and pay what is due.
You also indicate the "kids" are "not wanting him to go to the one of his choice..." Again, if he's competent (or was when he made this choice), then it is NONE of their business. It is dad's life, it is dad's assets, it is dad's choice. Period.
Since we don't have enough details or knowledge, the suggestions to seek legal advice might be the best bet. If there are questions about when the POAs are activated and/or what the POAs allow, the attorney should be able to answer them. Our EC atty told me we couldn't force mom to move - POAs don't give anyone that "power." He suggested guardianship. The facility wouldn't accept "committals", so we had to resort to fibs (that story's for another time!)
IF you feel these "kids" will raise a stink AND your husband is still competent, it might be a good idea for him to revoke the financial POA and assign it to someone more reliable, someone who will honor his wishes. The POA's duty is to manage everything as if they WERE the person, so if there's a chance this son would not perform his duty properly, it would be best to make the change while you (he) can.
IF your husband is no longer competent, but you have concerns about the management of finances, the next step would be to seek guardianship and conservatorship. These overrule ANY POA - the POAs become null and void. If you wish to be guardian and conservator, you would retain ALL the decision making, for residence, finances, medical.
Without more information, it is difficult to recommend much more than this. For instance, if his only income was SS, once he is no longer competent you can/should apply to be rep payee - this is the only real legal way to manage another person's SS income. It would take control out of any POA hands. The same may be true for a pension - I can only state that this holds for Federal pensions. You'd have to contact any private pensions to know what their rules are for managing the income. Does he also have assets outside the "investments?" Who manages his income and savings?
Regardless of what the details are, where he resides should be HIS choice. You've indicated he DID choose that place and whether he's competent now or not, that WAS his choice and his "kids" should butt out. Being his spouse, you should have more say/sway in the decision making. You should ensure that the place is all it's cracked up to be. A lot of window dressing can make a place seem better, but it's the care that matters most. Reviews can't always be trusted. Your eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch are what's needed to check out places. If they aren't locked down, go walk about at different times of the day and observe it all.
As long as your husband is mentally competent, he can decide on where he wants to go. If your husband is not mentally competent, then the person(s) holding his medical and financial POAs (Powers of Attorney) will decide. If nobody has a POA, then the next of kind will decide. Usually spouse trumps child.
So if I understand, your husband has picked out the facility with the highest cost and best rating in your area - but his children - while not looking for the cheapest are looking for a less expensive facility.
Since this is a second marriage do you each have your own money? IF you are dependent on husband - will you need some of the money being spent for his care - IF YES, then maybe a compromise can be reached, a facility costing less but still having good care. IF you DON'T need any of his money then his children should let him go for it.
When considering moving mom and dad to AL because of dad's decline, dad was upset about the money to be spent because he and mom wanted to leave an inheritance to my brother and I. My response was the money was there to take care of them while they lived and if anything was left, then fine but if nothing was left after their deaths, the that was fine too. They and their care came first.
So another question - are his children being greedy or are they concerned that the money lasts dad for the life he has left?
You are the one that decides his care. Current spouse trumps children. UNLESS he had designated one of his kids as POA for health care or financial decisions. If this is the case you might have a fight on your hands. You might want to talk to an Elder Care Attorney to determine what the best course of action might be. Money that has been saved should be used first for his care THEN if anything remains that is the inheritance. I suppose your option now might be is to both move to a facility that offers continuing care. Once you are in it would be more difficult to move him. You do not indicate if he has any cognitive problems at this time. If that is the case this should be a discussion that includes him.
I would check out different places and place him somewhere where they are good and take care of people correctly and have a high rating. The best he can afford may not always be the best care.......check out the care level and go from there. wishing you luck when the time comes.
Too many people don't realize that the money they've been saving up for retirement is for their care, not for inheritances. Even those who did the saving don't often realize it, but yes, your husband deserves the best care money can buy.
My dad would have had a heart attack if he'd known how much we now spend on care for my mom, because they were living very comfortably on about $25k/year in their golden years. Now I spend that in 2 1/2 months just on the nursing home, but that's OK -- she can well afford it. Good investing has increased the value of her estate in spite of nearly $10k/month in rent and pharmacy bills, and she's worth more now than she was before going into the nursing home.
Tell his kids to chill out -- it's still Dad's money until he draws his last breath.
My Mom fretted about the cost of her AL because she "wanted to leave something to you kids." I told her to spend it all on herself, none of us was in need.
It’s all relative. Mom's AL was about $4300 a month in central Ohio. We could have spent upwards of $6500 but she liked the one she lived in. It was her choice and she was very comfortable there. Lots of AL facilities have amenities that look good on the tour but are little used by the residents. Things like pubs, coffee bars, fitness rooms and beauty salons. I would pick the one that is the best fit for your husband and convenient for you to visit.
Your husband is 65 or his “kids” are 65? I’d opt for best nursing care facility…my advice is to see Elder law Atty. Who had power of attorney & health proxy? Is husband competent? Good luck & hugs 🤗
I think his kids are thinking about their inheritance. We need a little more information. I hope he appointed you as his POA. It is his money and you do what is in his best interest. I would see a lawyer if I was you. Good luck.
I guess if children are 65 you are in your 80s. What kind of health problems does Husband have? How long have u been married?
I hope you have POA. I also hope you both have seen a lawyer concerning what is his, what is yours, what is ours. We have some posts on here that children have POA. Walk in and take their parent leaving the step-parent to fend for themselves.
If no one has POA, then the wife is in charge, I would say. And I agree, kids are trying to save their inheritance. Husband should leave it all to you. Would serve them right.
Someone should remind his kids that their father's money is his money and not theirs. He can spend it any way he wants. Also, you are his wife so the decision if it ever has to be made, is yours. Tell those senior citizen-aged, ingrate kids of his that clearly they love and care more about their potential, future inheritance than about their father. Then tell them their dad is lucky that you love and care for him a lot more than they do and won't see him put in some cheap, disgusting, dive nursing home in order to save a few bucks. If they have any shame this should be enough to shut them up about it. If it's not, you're the one who will be deciding anyway.
You as his wife should have the say as to what kind of care facility he goes in if and when he needs it. I'm hoping you are his medical and durable POA, as the the kids will have no say in the matter. Is it because they don't want their father spending all their inheritance on his care? If that is the reason, how incredibly selfish of his children to only be thinking of themselves, instead of wanting the best care for their dad that he can afford. Or is it because they don't believe that your husband was a good dad to them and want to punish him by putting him in a low income facility? You don't give us much to go on, so I am just speculating as to their reasoning. I've never in all my 61 years heard of anyone say about their parents when it came to placing them in a facility, that they wanted them to placed in the lowest costing one possible. Folks usually look for the nicest one that they can afford. Make sure if no one is your husbands POA yet that you get that taken care of ASAP.
The two thoughts are not mutually exclusive, BUT if his kids are PREMATURELY thinking of THEIR CUT in HIS CASH, they need to BACK OFF.
I’d go with your husband to a geriatric financial planner who can help you and him set up some protections just in case “kids” overstep their bounds.
If you deal with a lawyer, ask him to recommend a financial specialist. Sometimes commercial banks provide this service if you have a large enough account with them.
Micklin - It sounds like your husband has money but who has control over the money? Did your husband appoint anyone to be his Power of Attorney? You or his kids? How is your husband's current mental status?
What are your husband's wishes? To be in something not so nice so that he could pass on the money to you and then presumably the kids, or spend his remaining time somewhere that is nice and may offer more opportunities for daily engagement? This is your call unless there's another DPAO. The family should consider two things: 1. It's their father's money still,and should be used to support him so that a move to a new residence meets his needs. 2. They should consider the example they are modeling for the own children and the rest of the family.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Please, protect yourself. You have 17 yrs in this marriage and have contributed in some way. Right now you are a Caregiver.
Although the kids, in this case, may think they can find a "low-cost" facility, it may not remain so for long. It is not up to them to decide, of course. For private pay, it's all expensive for normal folks who have worked hard all their lives and saved up.
Is your husband still competent?
Is/are his needs medical, cognitive or both?
Have the "kids" given a reason for their choice?
IF your husband is still competent, then POAs should not be in effect yet. It can depend on what type of POA and/or what conditions would activate them. We don't know what those are, so it is difficult to second guess.
Also, POAs generally are only for managing specific things like bill paying, signing some documents, some investing. POAs do NOT give the appointee the power to decide when or where someone lives. Repeat DO NOT.
You indicate the "Eldest son is his POA for investments" - if it is only for investments, then he manages how the funds are invested, but he would have no control over regular income? Most likely if your husband moves to a facility, the "investments" would come into play. IF he moves to ANY place, whether it's his choice or theirs, the POA would legally have to distribute the needed funds. It is NOT the POAs decision where or how much, it is their duty to MANAGE it as if they are the person and pay what is due.
You also indicate the "kids" are "not wanting him to go to the one of his choice..." Again, if he's competent (or was when he made this choice), then it is NONE of their business. It is dad's life, it is dad's assets, it is dad's choice. Period.
Since we don't have enough details or knowledge, the suggestions to seek legal advice might be the best bet. If there are questions about when the POAs are activated and/or what the POAs allow, the attorney should be able to answer them. Our EC atty told me we couldn't force mom to move - POAs don't give anyone that "power." He suggested guardianship. The facility wouldn't accept "committals", so we had to resort to fibs (that story's for another time!)
IF you feel these "kids" will raise a stink AND your husband is still competent, it might be a good idea for him to revoke the financial POA and assign it to someone more reliable, someone who will honor his wishes. The POA's duty is to manage everything as if they WERE the person, so if there's a chance this son would not perform his duty properly, it would be best to make the change while you (he) can.
IF your husband is no longer competent, but you have concerns about the management of finances, the next step would be to seek guardianship and conservatorship. These overrule ANY POA - the POAs become null and void. If you wish to be guardian and conservator, you would retain ALL the decision making, for residence, finances, medical.
Without more information, it is difficult to recommend much more than this. For instance, if his only income was SS, once he is no longer competent you can/should apply to be rep payee - this is the only real legal way to manage another person's SS income. It would take control out of any POA hands. The same may be true for a pension - I can only state that this holds for Federal pensions. You'd have to contact any private pensions to know what their rules are for managing the income. Does he also have assets outside the "investments?" Who manages his income and savings?
Regardless of what the details are, where he resides should be HIS choice. You've indicated he DID choose that place and whether he's competent now or not, that WAS his choice and his "kids" should butt out. Being his spouse, you should have more say/sway in the decision making. You should ensure that the place is all it's cracked up to be. A lot of window dressing can make a place seem better, but it's the care that matters most. Reviews can't always be trusted. Your eyes, ears, nose, taste and touch are what's needed to check out places. If they aren't locked down, go walk about at different times of the day and observe it all.
Since this is a second marriage do you each have your own money? IF you are dependent on husband - will you need some of the money being spent for his care - IF YES, then maybe a compromise can be reached, a facility costing less but still having good care. IF you DON'T need any of his money then his children should let him go for it.
When considering moving mom and dad to AL because of dad's decline, dad was upset about the money to be spent because he and mom wanted to leave an inheritance to my brother and I. My response was the money was there to take care of them while they lived and if anything was left, then fine but if nothing was left after their deaths, the that was fine too. They and their care came first.
So another question - are his children being greedy or are they concerned that the money lasts dad for the life he has left?
Good luck to all of you.
If the children don't use his money to get him the care he needs, that is actually a form of financial abuse.
You might want to talk to an Elder Care Attorney to determine what the best course of action might be. Money that has been saved should be used first for his care THEN if anything remains that is the inheritance.
I suppose your option now might be is to both move to a facility that offers continuing care. Once you are in it would be more difficult to move him.
You do not indicate if he has any cognitive problems at this time. If that is the case this should be a discussion that includes him.
My dad would have had a heart attack if he'd known how much we now spend on care for my mom, because they were living very comfortably on about $25k/year in their golden years. Now I spend that in 2 1/2 months just on the nursing home, but that's OK -- she can well afford it. Good investing has increased the value of her estate in spite of nearly $10k/month in rent and pharmacy bills, and she's worth more now than she was before going into the nursing home.
Tell his kids to chill out -- it's still Dad's money until he draws his last breath.
I guess if children are 65 you are in your 80s. What kind of health problems does Husband have? How long have u been married?
I hope you have POA. I also hope you both have seen a lawyer concerning what is his, what is yours, what is ours. We have some posts on here that children have POA. Walk in and take their parent leaving the step-parent to fend for themselves.
If no one has POA, then the wife is in charge, I would say. And I agree, kids are trying to save their inheritance. Husband should leave it all to you. Would serve them right.
He can spend it any way he wants.
Also, you are his wife so the decision if it ever has to be made, is yours. Tell those senior citizen-aged, ingrate kids of his that clearly they love and care more about their potential, future inheritance than about their father. Then tell them their dad is lucky that you love and care for him a lot more than they do and won't see him put in some cheap, disgusting, dive nursing home in order to save a few bucks.
If they have any shame this should be enough to shut them up about it. If it's not, you're the one who will be deciding anyway.
Is it because they don't want their father spending all their inheritance on his care? If that is the reason, how incredibly selfish of his children to only be thinking of themselves, instead of wanting the best care for their dad that he can afford.
Or is it because they don't believe that your husband was a good dad to them and want to punish him by putting him in a low income facility? You don't give us much to go on, so I am just speculating as to their reasoning.
I've never in all my 61 years heard of anyone say about their parents when it came to placing them in a facility, that they wanted them to placed in the lowest costing one possible. Folks usually look for the nicest one that they can afford.
Make sure if no one is your husbands POA yet that you get that taken care of ASAP.
I’d go with your husband to a geriatric financial planner who can help you and him set up some protections just in case “kids” overstep their bounds.
If you deal with a lawyer, ask him to recommend a financial specialist. Sometimes commercial banks provide this service if you have a large enough account with them.
I have POA for health
To be in something not so nice so that he could pass on the money to you and then presumably the kids, or spend his remaining time somewhere that is nice and may offer more opportunities for daily engagement? This is your call unless there's another DPAO.
The family should consider two things:
1. It's their father's money still,and should be used to support him
so that a move to a new residence meets his needs.
2. They should consider the example they are modeling for the own children and the rest of the family.