My dad is 92 and she is 87 and on dialysis 3 days of the week outside of the home. Before my dad went into memory care (which is 5 blocks from his home) he had fallen 3 times. She didn’t give him his meds properly or attend to his hygiene. The house is not “baby proofed” at all. She thinks they will be fine alone overnight and on weekends.
If not, and he doesn't have a PoA, then you will need to talk to the facility to make sure they know he is an "unsafe discharge" and that you will not be overseeing the home care.
Do not help or enable him to go back home even if she asks you (or any other person she may contact). Make sure other family members know not to intervene, or respond to her, including their friends and neighbors. If she somehow manages to get him home, report them to APS and keep reporting them. If either of them winds up in the ER, go there and talk to the discharge planner and tell them he or she is an "unsafe discharge" and that no one is willing/able to manage their care at home. Then ask to talk to a hospital social worker about transitioning either one of them directly into a facility.
If you or anyone helps them, APS won't be able to know how bad it is so that they can intervene sooner rather than later.
They'll be fine until they die, which, under that plan, may be very soon.
Try making a list of everything that would have to be done (1) during the overnight time period and (2) on weekends. Every. Last. Thing. It will be a lot. Also list Every. Last. Thing. that she expects YOU to do. Decide if you can do them. Ask her, since you can't do this one or that one, who she expects to do it. YOU be firm and make it very clear that YOU aren't up to it. (The care of dad alone is not even something you can do. If he's in memory care, he needs much more care than he could get at home.) Then ask mom who is going to do all those things? Will she hire help and supervise them? No, she can't. SHE will cry and accuse and insist that she needs no help so why are you having this discussion, and then you go home.
The only way I can see to impress upon mom that her plan won't work is for her doctor(s) to prescribe that she MUST go to long-term care. Because that's what needs to happen. Have a serious talk with the doctors. If you're not your parents' MPOA, write notes to the doctors - urgent ones that describe the whole scope of the problem - which they will read and consider. Also refuse to be involved in any home care, period.
Sadly, your mom has become unrealistic and irrational. She isn't capable of making decisions for herself or dad. She should be tested to find out what her cognitive issues are, and then you can move on from there to decide on a long-term plan. I wish you the best of luck in a difficult situation.
I understand she misses having her husband home. I would too. However, it is not feasible for him to be at home now, with her not able to take care of him.
Can they afford to hire 24 hour live-in care? or shifts of caregivers to give 24 hour coverage? That is the only way she could consider having him home with her. And that is not ideal. They could get lucky and find really good caregivers, and it could work out. But, your father is in the safest and best place now.
But I realize that you have the same problem I suffer from which is that if you were an obedient child it is very hard to not feel like our parents have this authority over us. So even if with all my mature judgment I know that dad is in the right place, once mommy says I want your dad to come home, all of these internal machinations get set in motion. And there is this basic desire deep deep down that makes us want to make them happy and please them.
Your mom is so fortunate. She has two loving children and her husband is close to her house where she can visit regularly. You are doing a great job.
Best of luck to you.
People are living way longer than they did years ago. I've taken care of people well into their nineties pushing into their hundreds. The question is though, are they living a quality of life. Family members are miserable and frustrated with these situations. The elder is stubborn and wanting things their way. Truth of the matter is that they no longer get to dictate who goes where.
No.
No.
No.
No.
Get it? The answer is no with no discussion
Ask M how she intends to manage dialysis, transport to and from the centre, and who will care for D while she is away for so long on half the weekdays – forever. This is totally unrealistic.
Her doctor can order this care placement for her.
Best for both. imo.
If you have all options, you may not need to sell the house right away.
Insurance and financial planning may require that you state "She is returning to her home". Ask attorney about this.
Not sure, but doesn't confusion come with dialysis?
Mom quickly found out that she wasn't able to help Dad up the stairs to the bedroom and bath. Thus, he had to sleep on the recliner in the living room, and Mom slept on the sofa. Physical therapy came to the house to help Dad, but Mom was not a happy camper when a young female therapist came to the door.
One thing I noticed was that my Mom thought I was still that 30 year old person with a ton of energy, instead of being a senior citizen myself. I had to quickly learn to say "sorry, I can't possibly do that".
If your Mom does take your Dad out of memory-care, and she finds it's more difficult than she thought, she may need to go on a waiting-list in order for him to return. That wait list could be for many months.
As their children,we told them, yes you can stay in your own home but it's impossible as we never foresaw the future of their health or safety. Being POA is having to do what's right for them,even if it hurts the whole family emotionally. You don't need calls from APS if something should happen to Mom.
When she got Covid later that year and had to be hospitalized we informed the hospital that she was an unsafe discharge and placed her in the same nursing home as my father. We thought it was the safest place for her. Since she was not able to visit my father anymore we also thought it was the most humane thing to do because they could spend their last days together.
She wanted to go back home. I had to tell her that if she did go home, she was on her own now. We thought the safest place for her to be was in the nursing home now. She was very angry that her daughters would not support her anymore if she went back.
She did not adjust very well to nursing home life unlike my father who seemed to accept it. Fortunately for her, she only lived in the nursing home for less than a year, unlike my father who is in year four now.
I really wish she had died before we had to make this decision to place her. She was very bitter and angry towards me at the end. Our relationship was never easy but at the end of her life we did not like each other anymore.
I'm praying for you and your family as you navigate this difficult time.
Could there be a type of AL community where they can live together and both of them get the care they need as CaringWifeAZ suggests? That may be a good option that works for everyone. Are hired live-in caregivers a possibility where they live? That may be another option.
Your mother is never going to listen to you or your family explaining that she cannot adequately care for your father or even herself at this point. She will have to have it explained to her by a doctor and even then she may not listen. In the meantime, make sure the memory care knows that your father is not to be discharged for any reason. This will take some of the stress off you and your brother if you decide to explore different care options for them.
Contact his MD.
Speak to the MCare facility administrator and dept manager.
Clearly, your mother likely will NEVER agree. She is 87 ... and used to him being around for decades. She doesn't want to change and be alone. She is unable to think about what is best for him (and her) due to her own fears of the unknown and change.
Does your mother 'understand' why he is in memory care?
Is she able to cognitively understand what he might do if he isn't in a safe environment. For her to 'think' they are okay alone overnight and weekends should tell you that she is unable to make these needed decisions.
It isn't easy.
You DO NOT ask your mother what she wants; you tell her what needs to be done 'now' for his welfare and safety. She will be scared and maybe mad.
That's okay ... it is a major adjustment. Tell her you understand how she feels; honor her feelings knowing this is hard for her. It shows respect when you reflect back to her what she says as she knows she is being heard.
Don't argue. That won't help. Logic may not help, either.
The first step is realizing that YOU need to make these changes.
It IS respectful to 'take control,' even when your mom gets upset.
You need to find out what your legal rights are and get the necessary paperwork (documentation from his MD).
If she has legal authority, then you need to figure out the next step - talk to her MD and an attorney.
Gena / Touch Matters
To bring him home would not be safe for either of them so your POA would work.
If you are not POA you may have to obtain Guardianship as I doubt that she will willingly appoint you POA for her, and he can not appoint you since he is not legally competent.
I would hate to have this drag out in Court and put you in the position of Guardian. Not an easy job and it will be expensive, an expense that will be borne by your parents, not out of your pocket but why spend money that does not have to be spent?!
Maybe your mom's doctor can talk this out with her, or your dad's doctor.
But now I am going to play devils advocate here and see this from your mom's side.
I am going to guess that they have been married at least 60 years or more.
Your mom and dad took vows that they hold seriously.
Your mom has always taken care of your dad....just like she said she would in sickness and in health....
I am also going to guess the number of times that they have spent apart (up until now) can probably be counted on your fingers.
To see your dad being taken care of by someone else is difficult for her.
No one knows just how he likes...his back scratched, his coffee, his laundry folded, his chicken done, his steak done, how much butter to put on his toast...whatever is is she knows that man. AND she misses how she can reach over at night and know he is there, how she can put her cold feet against his leg and all of a sudden she is warm all over. I can go on and on....
Now here she is and she is lost.
I have a crazy thought....Is it possible for your mom to move into the same facility? i know of couples one with dementia, one without and they are both in MC. One can come and go, the other is safe. I also know of others where the person with dementia is in AL with their spouse that does need help. The one with dementia is safe because they are not at risk of wandering, and the spouse is there. When the spouse has to leave the one with dementia is either monitored or can "visit" the MC unit.
I agree with the consensus that Dad simply cannot be moved home. And I specifically agree with the replies that perhaps your Mom's loneliness could be a driving factor for her desire to bring Dad back home.
Dad has dementia but Mom doesn't, and for Mom dealing with dialysis now, she must realize that both she and your Dad are nearing the end. I can understand her probable feelings of sadness, loneliness, and anxiety. I'm guessing she wants to live with Dad again because that brings her a very strong sense of comfort. If I'm guessing right, Mom living with Dad could be a very good solution for everyone involved.
I also agree to explore moving your Mom into the same facility where Dad currently lives; either for her to share an apartment onsite with him or have Dad remain in Memory Care while Mom lives in the assisted living part of the same facility. Otherwise consider finding a long term care community where they could be together in a way that both their medical needs can be met.
Hope this is helpful and good luck with this.