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Hello,



Forgive me if this becomes all over the place. I’m trying to keep it all straight myself.



My mother is basically the caretaker of my grandparents. My grandmother has Parkinson’s with pretty intense sundowners. My grandfather is aging and is technically the person taking care of my grandma, but in reality, he has become self centered and in his own words has given up on everything. He also has a very unhealthy attachment to his possessions and material things that has started to strain his relationship with his family. Last year it became clear that my grandmothers state had deteriorated and the in home care people was not enough. The plan was to move into an “independent apartment” in a senior living area that had on site access to care in case of any issues. After a recent evaluation this summer, we were told my grandmother should go to assisted living with memory care. My mom found an assisted living place in the same complex as their apartment and a duplex nearby for grandpa, and the assisted living room is supposed to be ready to move into in February. As of now, they are both living in the duplex nearby with in home care and my mother coming over every day she is not working (part time k-12 art teacher).



Since then, my grandfather has become really challenging for my mother. As mentioned, he has a really unhealthy relationship with material things. I’ve helped move him multiple times in the last 5 or so years and he cannot throw anything out because he’s too attached to it. Our family always knew his stuff was a problem and now it’s becoming a thing. At this point, he is complaining all the time that he had to “give up his house” and “sell his other car” and that “no one cares about everything I’ve aqquired”, so much so that it seems like he is more worried about his things than he is his family. He’s become so self centered and complains about having to take care of my grandmother and that he has “lived too long”. I drove him to the store on Christmas Day to pick up some last minute supplies and he told me that “everyone hates me and soon enough you will too, at this point I’ve just given up on everything”. My mother and her brothers are truly quite mad at him because he didn’t listen to their warning about his stuff and about him taking care of himself or my grandmother, and now is dealing with health issues as a result of being lazy and not taking care of himself. He has started to lie about things in an effort to get his way and is becoming a lot harder for me to love as the grandpa I knew 10 years ago.



All of this hardship falls directly on my mother, who as of 3 months ago was told by her oncologist that her breast cancer has returned. She has a great care team and it’s a modestly good outlook and she’s taking all the steps necessary. She’s someone who doesn’t complain and always does what she has to do, a real no BS lady, but I can see it’s getting incredibly hard for her. Her two brothers have been mildly helpful, but they live far away and quite frankly are more focused on their own families. My mother is 10 minutes away and the oldest, so she’s the one fielding a phone call every night when my grandma starts freaking out and my grandpa insists that she talks to her and calms her down.



What can I even do? I’m early 20s only child in grad school about 100 miles away and try to visit when I can but it’s really challenging with school. My dad does the best he can do to help my mom but deals with his own parents and works a lot to provide for us. I try and pick up the slack around the house when I’m home but that’s not much.



What can I do? I try to listen and help but frankly I came home for the holidays to see my family falling apart in front of me. It’s taken a toll on me and certainly my mom while she goes through fighting cancer (again). It’s also starting to hold resentment towards my grandfather who I deep down love but honestly think is acting so selfishly it makes me sick. I feel lost.



thanks

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These are just my first ideas, and I hope that others will follow.

I think that you should prioritise who needs help.

First, your mother. If her breast cancer has come back, she needs to focus on herself. If it kills her (and come-back breast cancer killed my mother in 4 months from diagnosis), she can’t do anything for the others anyway. She needs to shed as much responsibility as possible, as quickly as possible.

Second, your grandmother. Look at her needs separately. If she can get care to meet all her needs, it lets your mother off the hook. Trying to meet GM’s needs at the same time as GP’s wants, makes it all unnecessarily difficult.

Last, your grandfather. He quite possibly has mental deterioration of some sort, even just in making past problems even worse. He is a hoarder, he’s selfish, he’s putting his ‘wants’ before the two women who really need the help. He is the least ill. Forget about keeping the GM and GP together. If necessary, their assets can be split (other posters can tell you about this, and it will probably need a lawyer). Let helping him, if at all, come later.

Focus on GM, which will help your mother. In the short term, forget about GP. You are young, you don't live there permanently, there is limit to what you can do. Try to convince your mother that this is the way she should treat things, for everyone's sake. Don't let her follow her instincts and put herself last!

Come on, other posters, check this and provide some more help for OP Mark. Yours, Margaret
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Mark, thinking some more about where your father is in all this. GM and GP are his inlaws, and your M has always been a great coper. Perhaps the best thing you could do is try to work out a plan with M, and then tell your F that he needs to make the plan happen, for the sake of your M, NOT for the sake of the inlaws. If he is eligible for family leave, this is the time to take it.

I hope that some of this is just a bit of help. I send you my best wishes from a long way away., Margaret
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MarkCollins Dec 27, 2023
Hey Margaret, thanks for the responses.

My father is very much involved. I think I somewhat undersold him in the original post, running out of characters. He is taking work off about once every other week to take my mother to appointments, and is really supporting my mom in every way he can. (being there to listen to her, give his opinion on the situation, helping her with physical tasks she can't)

He and I talk a lot about the situation and he certainly feels the stress too. I think his main goal is to make sure he provides stability for me and my mother, and in turn can alleviate some stress she might feel. But I do think you bring up a valid point.
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Hello. What are are studying? You have a lot of empathy.

Maybe try shifting your 'headline' from family 'falling apart' to family 'transitioning'. Changing from independant to assisted living is a big step for your Grandparents - a doozy. But it is a necessary step in our human lives. Just like we learn to ride a trike, then a 2 wheel bike, then drive a car. Then back to a mobility scooter, 4 wheel walker, wheelchair & lastly, a hospital bed on wheels. The circle of life. The wheels of life!

What can you do? Observe.

I watched as my folks tread that path of assisting their parents, then their downsizes - house to independant unit to nursing home room. Now it is my turn to help my folks do it.

Just be a their grandchild. Be your parent's son. Finish college. Live your life.
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Encourage your mother to focus on her own health. She can assist her parents best by helping them hire a Geriatric Care Manager who can find Grandma the care she needs right now

Grandpa needs to be seen by a Geriatric Psychiatrist; his depression requires treatment.
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Your mother and her health MUST come before anyone else's care. PERIOD. End of conversation.
Both your grandparents have issues, and require more care than your mother can provide. Your grandfather obviously is a hoarder which is a mental disorder, plus it sounds like he perhaps has some dementia going on as well.
And if your grandmother has Parkinson's then her dementia is more than likely Lewy Body dementia(as that is often associated with Parkinson's)which is one of the most aggressive of all the dementias with a life expectancy of just 5-7 years, so she will continue to go downhill fast.
To me it sounds like both of your grandparents need to be in an assisted living facility with an option for memory care when the time comes.
Hopefully once your grandparents are placed your mom can better focus on her health and you can get back to just worrying about getting good grades and getting on with living and enjoying your young life.
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What can you do? You can show this entire post to your Mom and Dad because the suggestions and opinions here come from people who have walked the very path your Mom is now on with her parents.

She must make herself (and her spouse and own kids) the priority so that the stress doesn't give her cancer the upper hand.

She must recognize what depression and cognitive decline (and maybe even hoarding) looks like in a loved one.

She needs to alert her parents' PoAs to act (if it is someone besides herself or instead of herself). This is now the person who takes over. OR, she hires a Geriatric Care Manager and pays for it with her parents' funds.

If no one is your grandparents' PoA then this is a different story. Your Grandpa needs to be gently told what will happen if he doesn't create a PoA for himself. He can be taken to an elder law attorney who will privately assess him for capacity. Or, PoA documents can be downloaded and legally finalized as per his state (I've done this, it works fine). See Legalzoom or Rocketlawyer.com.

I would definitely at least consult with a Geriatric Care Manager to see what options there are for managing their affairs. "Someone" in the family may need to pursue guardianship through the courts. Other, with no one legally steering Grandpa's affairs, APS will need to be contacted and he gets on their radar as a vulnerable adult. It is a possibility that if things get bad enough with him the county will acquire guardianship and then the family does no management and decision-making for him at all.

But before this happens, is it possible that "someone" can talk to him about creating a PoA (if he doesn't have one)?

Can "someone" get him to see his PCP about meds for depression and anxiety? If he does have the beginnings of dementia, then he is less and less able to deal with problems and get himself mentally and emotionally to a calm state because dementia robs people of reason and logic, judgement and empathy, as well as many other functions.

This is probably why he is seeming "selfish". People with dementia aren't able to care about others anymore.

I hope your Mom will read this and the other responses and try to make a non-emotional, non-guilty decision about how to move forward that is in her own best interests. May she receive peace in her heart in this process.
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fluffy1966 Jan 2, 2024
Fabulous suggestion here, Geaton, for Mark to show this very Forum topic to his dutiful Mom! Sometimes seeing things in Black and White really sends the message "home"! Mark, you have a few days before you return to where your focus MUST be: Grad School! Before you leave, gently assist your mother in seeking out where she might help through counseling support to better set boundaries with the help she extends to her parents. That would be very valuable assistance, as it might involve using her health insurance, contacting a community agency, exploring a Faith-based community counseling center, etc. Your mother needs all the support she can get, in order to begin to pull back from her far too demanding role of parental oversight. Her health depends upon it! When you return to where your focus must be (Grad School), you would have helped your mother get established with some outside counseling support.
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What can you really do?
Listen.
And you are already DOING THAT.
That's ALL YOU CAN DO.
That and get an education and get on with the life your mother wants you to have.

You cannot do anything in this situation. You have a mom who has taken on WAY too much. You can suggest to her that she seek counseling now with a Licensed Social Worker in private practice. Tell her this:
"Mom, I am distressed and worried for you. You have taken on so much, and your Dad is now increasingly more needy and uncooperative while you yourself are increasingly needing your own time for your OWN health. I am not saying I don't care about granny and gramps, but you are my priority and I am worried for you.
Would you consider seeing a therapist or a licensed social worker in private counseling practice to get some pointers on how to set limits in your caregiving of you mom and dad for your own survival and your own good.
We have a sad situation here. I am worrying about you and you are worrying about me worry and about granny and gramps and you are sandwiched in between.
You need some help.
I feel like I am not much help; I can only listen, and don't really know how to direct you."

Mark, in all of this I am worried about YOU. Grandmother and granddad are at the end of a long life. Neither is going to change. Things will only get worse for them. Sorry, but we live too long these days.
Mom needs to lay down the law to them now that she has her own concerns for HER OWN LIFE and cannot go on, and that she will be pulling back from all this because she MUST if they don't get into care RIGHT NOW.
And that is what she should do.
But you can't make that decision for her; only she can make that choice. If she makes the BAD choice to go on in this caregiving I hope she doesn't burden YOU with it. YOUR JOB NOW is to get an education and your own life. And you cannot make her choices, and should not suffer for them.

I am so sorry. This is tough stuff. But you are so well written, so loving, and I am loathe to see you waste yourself on all of this. This is a natural progression with your grandparents. Your own Mom may need you in future soon enough (as a breast cancer survivor myself, I hope she does really well again).
You cannot afford to throw yourself away. This will be depressing for you and tough. Consider getting help for yourself. My grandson's school had great folks to turn to in their medical outreach. Depression and tough stuff seems a common "thing" these days and your university should have some outreach for you. USE IT. Get your OWN support. Talk with folks.

I hope you'll continue to update us.
So, I would just continue to listen to Mom. But I would ALSO let mom know that you can do little and that is making you feel helpless and distressed. Because there's really no magic that's going to descend here. This is all going to be tough.

As to your granddad saying he's ready to go? I am 81 so I feel qualified to say SO AM I. And neither he nor I are taking any of that crap-STUFF with us. And he should be told so. Time to let it go. I have long tried to downsize, clean things out, get albums full of pictures torn down to a neat little file box that says "Look at these once and throw".
Time for Granddad to man up for the sake of his daughter. Or he is absolutely correct. You will come to despise him.

Good luck. I have a young grandson. I can so identify with all you must be going through. Few would come to us as you have so honestly and with such an open, loving heart.
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ElizabethAR37 Dec 27, 2023
Absolutely. I would NEVER want our adult children or any family member to put their lives on hold for my husband (94) and me (87 next week). We've lived our lives. I'm pretty much ready for my Final Exit anytime--but hope to outlast my spouse (VERY briefly!) since I don't think he would do well flying solo at this point.
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Your mother’s priority is treating her cancer. She needs to distance herself from this mess. February is around the corner so hopefully your grandmother will move into AL and her care will be resolved.

Can your father offer your mother some support to help get her through this?

You need to go back to school when the new term starts. As a mother myself I would not want to see my child dropping out of school and losing opportunity for two old people who are lingering. I’m dealing with 95 yo parents over here so I know of what I speak.
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Grandpa appears to have dementia. He's feeling persecution, and that's one of the first signs. Also his lying, because confabulation is also a sign of dementia. Hoarding is a mental illness. His complaining could be a symptom too. The people who are mad at him, do they realize that his mental condition causes him to hoard, be unable to follow direction, and be unable to see down the road to consequences of his choices? He appears selfish to you, but that could be due to very real mental issues over which he has no control.

Grandpa isn't the grandpa you knew and love, and you can't do anything about that except point out that he needs help too. That could be accomplished by having him evaluated, but for the meantime you might be able to skip that and cite his symptoms as enough proof. I'd be willing to bet based on what you've written that he needs assisted living too. If that's the case, he might as well move into the same place that grandma is going and everyone forget about the duplex (which was a less than good idea, IMO, since your mom would think she should always be running over there to take care of him as well as grandma in AL).

As you've learned, Mark, these things are complicated. The best you can do is get back to your studies after pointing out your observations to your mom and dad, then let them continue from there. Encourage your mom to put herself first and get well. With both grands in AL and eventual progression to memory care, she could do that.
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Your mother is the only one who can change her situation. Not your monkey, not your circus.
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Jennycap Jan 2, 2024
Agree
Mom needs to walk away
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I will bet Grandpa has always been self-centered but now as he ages its becoming more pronounced. I am sure my grandson never saw that my Dad could be self-centered. They r so different with grands. He may have cognitive decline or early signs of Dementia. This will make him hard to reason with. My suggestion, place him into AL. There he will be safe, fed and cared for. He needs to be sat down and told that it is no longer about him. Mom's cancer is back and she cannot be at his beck and call. His wife is in MC and she needs him. He needs to do for her not expect his daughter to. This should come from ur Dad, man to man. Then ur uncles should be called and told Mom can no longer care for Dad. The stress of caring for her parents could have something to do with the cancer coming back. Stress will effect her getting better.

You, you need to concentrate on school. But when your home, do as much as u can for Mom and Dad. Sometimes its the little things that pile up and become overwhelming.
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Get Grandma and Grandpa into AL or Memory Care . ( that would probably be best as it sounds like grandpa is there)
Tell Grandpa that you will keep his "treasures" for him. They can go into storage for the time being then begin to sell what can be sold, donate what can't be sold and garbage for the useless, worthless stuff.
Mom needs to make her own health a priority.
The "problem" might be is if your mom does not have the "legal right" to place grandma and grandpa in AL or MC.
Does mom have POA so that she can make decisions for them?
If not that needs to be done but if grandpa does have dementia diagnosed or not, if an attorney does not think he is competent then mom will have to obtain Guardianship.
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Sounds like both grandparents need assisted living, possibly memory care .

All you can do is encourage your mom to take care of herself and make that her first priority.

Encourage Mom to tell her parents she can no longer care for them , she has her own health problems. Suggest to Dad for him to encourage your mother to stop waiting on her parents . Perhaps your parents could also call her siblings. Maybe both your parents and your mother’s siblings go speak to your grandparents together , like an intervention , to tell them that have to go to a facility .

You need to focus on your studies . Other than encouraging ( by phone to your parents ) what I described above you need to stay at school .
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First and foremost, don’t sacrifice your schooling - life tends to get more complicated and it will never be easier for you to finish your degree than when you are young and single. The only thing that MIGHT make things a bit easier is if your school was closer to where your parents live. Then at least you can be closer to your mother. Is that an option? Would it make it worse for you? If so, then stay where you are and do the best you can managing your feelings. This is a lot. Focus on your goal(s), As for your mother, she needs to concentrate on getting better and needs relief from all of this care. If it is financially possible to move your grandparents to a place where their needs are mostly met then that is what should be done. If not, then home care to the extent possible will be the only way to go. Your grandfather sounds depressed. He too is watching his life change in front of his eyes. Giving up your stuff can be difficult as you age because it can be like saying goodbye to a little piece of yourself. Giving it up can be the equivalent of realizing you will never need it again - or use it again. Not easy for everyone. Getting him to focus on his really favorite things and agreeing to part with things he agrees that aren’t so important may help. Convincing him that his “job” and contribution to helping the family is to work on that may give him some purpose - which it seems he has lost along the way. Everyone needs a job or purpose. It is what keeps us going. Yours is to finish school and set your next goal. Good luck - this is not an easy situation but it will resolve as best it can. Prayers for your mother.
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There isn't Much you can do - finish your schooling . Listen and support Mom . Getting Old and sick is Part of Life - Just the fact you are concerned tells me your a caring Person.
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Be sure to have a good counselor for yourself to help you cope with your grief and distress watching the family dynamics. Continue your schooling. Affirm your mother that it is alright to take whatever steps she needs to for both her own well being and, the care of her parents. Listen to them all, including grandfather; affirm their feelings and assure them of your love. They are all grieving the many changes that come with aging and or illness. They may not recognize it as grief, but it is. Along with grief comes it's many varied symptoms, shock, anger, denial, bargaining, acceptance at one moment and then not...guilt or projecting guilt onto others.....
Suggest that your mother confer with a Geriatric Care Specialist if not already; also be sure that she has officially POA documents in place for making decisions for parents.
She may also benefit from conferring with an Elder Law Attorney to get more specific options going forward.
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I am sorry you are going through all of this. This is very hard for not only your Mom, but also your grandparents. As a result, he is taking it out on everyone. Unless you have gone through it with someone close to you and did the difficult work and made the difficult decisions, it is very hard to understand/empathize the "other" perspective.

I think your grandfather needs to go into memory care also. I think his memory is failing him, however, he isn't aware to what extent it is. Forget about assisted living. If both of your Grandparents share the same room in Memory care, he can still see your grandma every day. Be prepared. He will resist. See if you can get his doctor to recommend it. Tell Grandpa that he is moving into Memory Care so that it is easier to see Grandma every day. The downside is that it will cost more. However, if you separate them, he may hang onto his stuff even more and continue to be more stubborn.

I would also suggest that you, your Mom, and others do NOT try and get rid of the material goods. The fact that he will be moving into a smaller space will automatically mean that many things will be left behind and eventually culled and tossed. I really suspect that he is on his way to significant memory loss. The move to the smaller room will mean less stuff to be saved. After you move him in, and he figures out what he wants to bring in, it will be easier to get rid of the other stuff that no one wants to keep. In the meantime, it is absolute torture to you and he, to let go of those things that he has.

As for you, I suggest that you and your Mom get a good support system which includes some therapists or support group. Just having someone else to talk to that is knowledgeable and un-connected will help lessen the emotional toll.

I'm sorry all this is happening to you.

However, pay attention, as someday, this may happen to you. In any case, please finish your schooling. If you do not finish school, your options to enjoy and take on the challenges of life, will be limited.
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Congratulations to you for your empathy and caring about your family. The symptoms you describe in your grandfather are identical to the symptoms my husband had before he was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. To this day, I feel guilty because I judged him to be lazy when in actual fact, he was no longer able to plan his day and execute the various tasks he had always done. he just dumped them onme and I had had a heart attack. Likewise, with the way he refused to throw anything away. I woulod put it in the trash and he would pull it out again. When people lose their memory, their personal belongings represent concrete evidence of their remaining memories. Sunce we were moving in to independent living, we needed to downsize. My husband was very open to the realtor's suggestions for staging. Since we were moving and the house had to be cleaned up to sell, I hired an organizer to come to the house. One organizer was assigned to him and worked with him ion his study. They got absolutely nothing done but it freed me and the rest of the team to take care of everything else. Halfway through the day, the junk collector showed up and hauled everything away. It only took my husband a couple of weeks to forget what he is missing and whenever he asked, I said I would look for it. It also sounds like your grandfather might be depressed. Does your mother by chance have his power of attorney and healthcare proxy? Tactfully and delicately bringing it up with his primary care doctor is often a good way to get the ball rolling. Don't forget, this man has already lost his bride to Parkinson's and has to be grieving. Once they are both resettled, your mother will have a break. In the meantime, simply giving your mother and grandparents your love is truly the best way for you to help. And maybe you can find opportunities to go to a movie, a nail spa, shopping, etc with your mother so she gets a break.
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MarkCollins: Both grandparents may require memory care.
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