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Owns a house completely overrun with stuff, only 75 we are 74 & 65. She was an abusive phone sister who never spent actual time with her family and never helped with parents, now brother and I have to clean up her mess
Who is her POA for Finances? The POA is the one that should be managing the clean up and other details. If there is no POA is there a Guardian? Again the Guardian is the one that should be managing this. If there is no Guardian letting your sister become Ward of the State and then allowing the Court appointed Guardian manage this. the expense of cleaning up will come from your sisters assets. And if you or members of the family are going to take this on they your sisters estate should reimburse you for expenses. You need to keep DETAILED documentation as to how much was spent and keep ALL receipts in case expenses have to be justified. (applying for Medicaid for example of if a family member is either Guardian or POA) You can't change the past. Your sister is no longer mentally competent or responsible for the situation. And hoarding is not just collecting stuff or not throwing stuff away. Hoarding is a mental illness.
It took our family months to clean out my mom's house. She is still upset about it, but far less so. Thankfully I had family to pitch in, mostly around the ages you listed.
Why exactly to you have to clean it up? Find someone willing to buy it "as is", then walk away. You don't seem to have boundaries with this sister. You aren't responsible to clean up her messes, for any reason.
Hoarding is a mental disorder that is usually triggered by a trauma. It is very difficult to treat. It would not be safe or healthy for you and your siblings to clean this up yourselves so please consider other options. Easier said than done, I realize.
Look for companies that will do a contractor's cleanout. A real estate or construction company may help you find one. They could do this job in one day if they can assign two of three people to it. They'll haul stuff away to the Salvation Army, the dump, and/or the charity of your choice. Don't even attempt it.
I have a sibling who’s long been a hoarder. It’s a frustrating mental illness. We’ve done the clean out twice at his request only to watch it all return quickly. I’ve told his adult children I’ll not do it again unless he’s passed away, then I’ll help them do it the final time. They’ve long stated they will rent a roll off dumpster and toss it all, then sell the house for whatever it might bring. They will not spend much time or energy on this. Having grown up with it, they’ve wisely learned not to get caught up in it. You’re not obligated to do this, it can be hired out, but if you do, don’t spend much time, make quick decisions and toss with little thought or emotion. You’re not obligated at all, can also just let it go and eventually it will be sold at foreclosure or sell as is. I hope you’ll be able to move past the anger, it’s only affecting you, sister is mentally gone now and cannot be accountable. It’s sad that it wasn’t different or better, I know the feeling. I can’t be close to my sibling due to hoarding and a myriad of other mental illness issues. But anger and resentment is a waste, took me a bit to learn that, hope you’ll be at peace with it soon
Why is it your problem? Can't you just leave it? You say she was abusive, etc. Why must you do this? Can't understand why you have to clean up her mess when you don't own the house. Let the chips fall where they may, and hopefully an investor will buy it.
Why do you feel it falls to you to clean up her hoarded house? I would not if I were you. There are several other suggestions offered here for alternatives. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's not just the house, but the emotional drain of a family member who has left you feeling like this for many years.
You owe this sister nothing. Step back. Leave her and her mess alone. Go back to your own lives. This is not for you to fix.
I'm 89 and my spouse is 96. We've decluttered along the way in our 70s-mid 80s and will continue to do so as best we can. Still, as most elders and their families realize all too well, "stuff" still accumulates. Among my written end-of-life directions is one page related to clearing our house: call GOT JUNK (or a local equivalent). They will have the place emptied out in one day or less. We have nothing our adult children would likely want at this point so why burden them with this unpleasant and demanding task? The cleanout should be paid from our funds (our Executor has prearranged access to our bank account).
Unless you are co-owners of her house (such as you all jointly inherited it but let her live in it), or one or both of you has her POA, you don't need to do anything.
If you do jointly own it, then hire a company to clean it out, sell the house, and use the money from the sale to pay the cost of the cleanup. Your sister's share of the sale price should be placed in an account for her.
If one or both of you have her POA, it's probably best to consult with an elder law attorney (possibly the one who drafted the POA), to ensure that you can hire a company to clean it out, sell it, and set up the money from the sale for her.
Who made the arrangements for her to go to memory care, and is handling the bills for that?
I know this must be incredibly frustrating; as an avid viewer of "Hoarders," you have my sympathy.
I was caring for her but she became physically and mentally abusive. She would have hallucinations, try to leave house, and refusing meds, etc. From ER she went to an expensive memory care facility bc they were the only one who would accept her. We had to get a heloc loan just to pay them & some of her outstanding debt which is close to $80,000. We are the POA and are now working with a lawyer to help with this mess. We are both working on this daily which makes us feel angry and resentful. Thank you for your advice
My Mom had a 125 yr old farmhouse that had to be cleaned out and it was just me and husband to clean out 60 yrs of stuff. I did it room by room. Lots went in the trash. Some to a local charity thrift shop and Habitat for Humanity, they picked up.
My motto was "Just do it".
You know you can have the State take over your sisters care. You can revoke your POA. I would not have worried about any debts she owed. If she could not afford a Memory care, she could have gone to a Medicaid facility. As POAs you do not spend your own money.
1951 a ? for you……. that HELOC, so whose loan is this? Is it one that is entirely using her home as collateral? OR is the HELOC using your home as collateral? Your brothers? HELOC is 80K? Or is it more? When does its repayment start?
PLEASE please pls get a clear answer from the atty you are working with as to what might be done to “securitize yiur interest” if it was your home or your brothers home used as collateral for that HELOC. Have atty explain what this can mean and what should perhaps be done if it is 1. your home with the HELOC and 2. you are using the HeLOC $ to pay for her care/her house/her debts and 3. you & hubs / your brother have the expectation that all - ALL - $ spent for her from the HeLOC will be repaid to you all by the sale of her home.
My concerns are that the MC will be a phase and due to her financial ability &/or her care plan, she will end up going into a NH with LTC Medicaid beds. Or maybe a MC that takes LTC Medicaid waivers. So she ends up filing for LTC Medicaid as there is no more $. This program has very strict & narrow eligibility for what is allowed for the applicant to do with their $ and assets. If that atty is not very experienced in your States Medicaid programs, find one who is.
No matter whether you pay for the clean out from her house sale or sell as is, she is going to run out of money for memory care sooner or later and need to be placed in a Medicaid bed in a nursing home. You don’t need to squeeze out every penny of value from the home, you aren’t financially responsible for her and she WILL end up on Medicaid. Do what is easiest for you and let the chips fall where they may. Please consult with an estate attorney for guidance on the spend down of her assets and her Medicaid application.
My older sister had a similar situation, but she didn't have dementia. Her son and her daughters went and cleaned out her home throwing out all her clothes, furniture, jewelry, coats, and she went to the rehab with what she was wearing on her back.
Next, they were calling relatives to take on POA. My sister called me and I declined. She told me that she was going to keep calling until I said yes. I blocked her number after that last call. I had already learned my lesson from taking on my mom and then my disabled sister while everyone continued on with their lives uninterrupted. They continued to work, take vacations and have full paychecks while I barely scraped by. Of course, by me refusing to take on this third family burden, this created a tidal wave of anger in her kids. I got nasty memes from one niece on facebook. My sister and I haven't been on good terms for several decades. None of her adult children were never really nice to me. So, I would have been micromanaged, criticized and abused constantly. This was not they way I wanted to spend my retirement.
Of she’s out end the house then sone if the sand proceeds I’m sure legally can pay you back get charity/house clearance and seek legal advice for refunds of cash dont let her negativity move over to you Just deal with it and move on with your life and forget it youre giving away your power becoming a victim it’s not nice but has to be done will be over if you attack it with that in mind best,
Gleaning network. They're the folks who work behind the scenes of charity shops like Salvation Army and St. Vincent de Paul. They'll definitely be helpful for you both.
The only thing to do is suck it up, deal with the situation. Call your city and ask for help. It’s hard and I can’t imagine what you’re going through, but you can’t let it eat you up with anger. If you have to write it down everything, how you feel to get it out of your system how you feel even if four letter words. Then burn it. My brother in law and wife were hoarders in age group of 70s. They had a fire in house. Both ended up dying as a result. Was very sad. Does she gave children? See if there are any support groups in your town that can help you physically and mentally. See if any collectors or someone who will help go through stuff. Let them have stuff for free to carry off for helping you. Sometimes they will take a load or two away to sale themselves, in return it helps you clean it out. Or You maybe able to wash your hands of it all and let mortgage company repossess and them clean it out if your name is not on any paperwork. Take what you want ahead of notifying them. I wish you the best and pray you find a solution to help you.
Dear Demeaned, I am sorry that you are going thru this. You truly have my sympathy and I can relate to you. I am 55 taking care of my 81 year old father who has Alzheimer's and also is a hoarder. I would say to you to address your anger first. You did not ask to be put in this situation but yet here you are. Find some way to get the anger out so that you can focus on what you need to do. For me it has been screaming F-bombs at the top of my lungs. Find what works for you. Maybe it's breaking plates. Maybe it's talking to others like us in a support group. Find it and lean on it -- you need this for your own mental health.
Now for the house itself, as I see it you have 4 big options sitting in front of you. Option 1 -- Walk away and sell the house as is. If money is not important to you, this is the easy way out BUT be prepared to lose money when it comes time to sell. It will be harder and take longer to unload a house in such condition. Option 2 - 800-Got-Junk. This is a great service and they can really do a lot to help you get the place cleaned out but be prepared to pay. They are not cheap! Option 3 -- Explore local organizations that might be able to help you for free or for a donation. Do you or your SIL belong to a church? Do the they have a church group that can help you? Reach out to your local high school or college student groups. Some of these have service organizations that will take on projects like this for free or might be willing to help you for a donation to their organization. Option 4 -- Roll up those sleeves and get to pitching trash. It wont be easy and it will take time but as long as you can do this physically, emotionally it's the cheapest option. Be realistic in the time frame you set for yourself to complete this task. It's okay if it takes you several months to get it done.
What ever you choose, make sure you set healthy boundaries for you both physically and mentally. Do not take on more than you can handle.
I wish you all the best and am sending love and positive energy your way.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If there is no POA is there a Guardian? Again the Guardian is the one that should be managing this.
If there is no Guardian letting your sister become Ward of the State and then allowing the Court appointed Guardian manage this. the expense of cleaning up will come from your sisters assets. And if you or members of the family are going to take this on they your sisters estate should reimburse you for expenses. You need to keep DETAILED documentation as to how much was spent and keep ALL receipts in case expenses have to be justified. (applying for Medicaid for example of if a family member is either Guardian or POA)
You can't change the past.
Your sister is no longer mentally competent or responsible for the situation.
And hoarding is not just collecting stuff or not throwing stuff away. Hoarding is a mental illness.
Good luck to you.
Hoarding is a mental disorder that is usually triggered by a trauma. It is very difficult to treat. It would not be safe or healthy for you and your siblings to clean this up yourselves so please consider other options. Easier said than done, I realize.
I would not if I were you. There are several other suggestions offered here for alternatives.
I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's not just the house, but the emotional drain of a family member who has left you feeling like this for many years.
You owe this sister nothing. Step back. Leave her and her mess alone. Go back to your own lives. This is not for you to fix.
If you do jointly own it, then hire a company to clean it out, sell the house, and use the money from the sale to pay the cost of the cleanup. Your sister's share of the sale price should be placed in an account for her.
If one or both of you have her POA, it's probably best to consult with an elder law attorney (possibly the one who drafted the POA), to ensure that you can hire a company to clean it out, sell it, and set up the money from the sale for her.
Who made the arrangements for her to go to memory care, and is handling the bills for that?
I know this must be incredibly frustrating; as an avid viewer of "Hoarders," you have my sympathy.
Pay to have someone haul everything out.
My motto was "Just do it".
You know you can have the State take over your sisters care. You can revoke your POA. I would not have worried about any debts she owed. If she could not afford a Memory care, she could have gone to a Medicaid facility. As POAs you do not spend your own money.
OR
is the HELOC using your home as collateral? Your brothers?
HELOC is 80K? Or is it more? When does its repayment start?
PLEASE please pls get a clear answer from the atty you are working with as to what might be done to “securitize yiur interest” if it was your home or your brothers home used as collateral for that HELOC. Have atty explain what this can mean and what should perhaps be done if it is 1. your home with the HELOC and 2. you are using the HeLOC $ to pay for her care/her house/her debts and 3. you & hubs / your brother have the expectation that all - ALL - $ spent for her from the HeLOC will be repaid to you all by the sale of her home.
My concerns are that the MC will be a phase and due to her financial ability &/or her care plan, she will end up going into a NH with LTC Medicaid beds. Or maybe a MC that takes LTC Medicaid waivers. So she ends up filing for LTC Medicaid as there is no more $. This program has very strict & narrow eligibility for what is allowed for the applicant to do with their $ and assets. If that atty is not very experienced in your States Medicaid programs, find one who is.
Next, they were calling relatives to take on POA. My sister called me and I declined. She told me that she was going to keep calling until I said yes. I blocked her number after that last call. I had already learned my lesson from taking on my mom and then my disabled sister while everyone continued on with their lives uninterrupted. They continued to work, take vacations and have full paychecks while I barely scraped by. Of course, by me refusing to take on this third family burden, this created a tidal wave of anger in her kids. I got nasty memes from one niece on facebook. My sister and I haven't been on good terms for several decades. None of her adult children were never really nice to me. So, I would have been micromanaged, criticized and abused constantly. This was not they way I wanted to spend my retirement.
get charity/house clearance and seek legal advice for refunds of cash
dont let her negativity move over to you
Just deal with it and move on with your life and forget it
youre giving away your power becoming a victim
it’s not nice but has to be done
will be over if you attack it with that in mind
best,
Now for the house itself, as I see it you have 4 big options sitting in front of you. Option 1 -- Walk away and sell the house as is. If money is not important to you, this is the easy way out BUT be prepared to lose money when it comes time to sell. It will be harder and take longer to unload a house in such condition.
Option 2 - 800-Got-Junk. This is a great service and they can really do a lot to help you get the place cleaned out but be prepared to pay. They are not cheap!
Option 3 -- Explore local organizations that might be able to help you for free or for a donation. Do you or your SIL belong to a church? Do the they have a church group that can help you? Reach out to your local high school or college student groups. Some of these have service organizations that will take on projects like this for free or might be willing to help you for a donation to their organization.
Option 4 -- Roll up those sleeves and get to pitching trash. It wont be easy and it will take time but as long as you can do this physically, emotionally it's the cheapest option. Be realistic in the time frame you set for yourself to complete this task. It's okay if it takes you several months to get it done.
What ever you choose, make sure you set healthy boundaries for you both physically and mentally. Do not take on more than you can handle.
I wish you all the best and am sending love and positive energy your way.