Obligations to in-laws. Where do you draw the line?

It's very simple -- You mother's children (ideally) are responsible for her safety and care. However, neither they nor their spouses are required to provide that care, nor are they required to pay for that care.

Find a nursing home where MIL will be properly cared for. Use her funds to pay for it, and if she can't afford it, apply for Medicaid for her. After she's been placed in a facility where her basic needs will be seen to, you and your husband can interact with her as much or as little as you choose.

Your MIL could be mine.

After 46 years of her putting me down, belittling me, saying nasty, horrible things to me and DH just sitting back and allowing it, b/c "she's old, you have to make allowances". Phooey! She was 44 when I married into the family--that's old?? I was supposed to allow her to destroy me over and over--for what purpose??

I never fought back. I cried a TON. My poor kids, they saw what was going on and are mad to this day at their father who never said a word in my defense. They don't like grandma much either.

One year ago--a little more, since I know we weren't wearing masks yet-- I had to accompany DH to her house while he fixed her computer. She would not allow me to sit down, I had to stand there like a whipped dog. Finally DH says "Oh, for pity's sake, grab the office chair and sit down". She tried to argue with him, but I did get to sit. (My bad back was grateful!) Then, b/c she had been 'thwarted' she laid in to me something fierce. Just vitriol, nasty, hateful yelling at me. DH is deaf as a post and so is she, so she couldn't hear him and he wasn't even trying to listen to her. I sat there and had a great epihany. I didn't HAVE TO PUT UP WITH HER!!

I got up, slapped her on the back and said "V, I'm giving you the best gift in the world. I'm leaving and you'll never see me again" Followed by a good slap on the back and the theft of a Diet Coke.

I slammed out the back door, which neither one of them heard, darn it. Walked the few blocks to my sister's and by the time I got there I was laughing. Sis sat me down, fed me some chocolate and we talked and by the time DH came to get me I was fine.

And I have not spoken to nor seen my MIL since. NOTHING could make me see her again and I don't intend to. Why? Why put yourself in the line of fire?

I TRULY did not know people as nasty as my MIL actually existed.

Here's my hard no's of what I will not do:

see her again, ever
go to her funeral (but she is never going to die--she tells us that all the time)

Isn't that sad? Really, she could have had a good friend in me. I cannot change her and I'm OVER changing me for her.

I wanted to tell you that your MIL is as toxic as one I know. You really must stop pushing your DH to interact with her.
It could literally kill him.
We have a family member who is exactly as you describe. Narcissistic tendencies for sure. When I read the book “The Sociopath Next Door” I thought that fit her even better.

Her only child had to cut his parents totally out of his life on doctors orders. He had been suicidal. They cut ties for over a decade. She stalked them. They had to call the police, had counseling with their ministers etc. The ministers told MIL she was wrong. She changed churches.

In time, she stopped but if her sons family was mentioned, she would leave, go pout, become angry. She of course blamed it all on the DIL. Time passed. And MIL father died.
Son and family came to the funeral. Everyone was so happy to see them. Little by little they would attend family events.
Of course the MIL was quick to return to her old pattern but this time the kids had stronger boundaries and the vulnerable grandkids were mostly grown. That lasted awhile.

Then MIL DH had a heart attack and died. It’s a wonder he lasted as long as he did. So much drama. He was in his mid 60s. She was filled with remorse for how she had treated him.

But in a year or so, after her DIL did everything she could for her, MIL was back. DIL had helped her learn how to pay her bills, moved her into a smaller home after selling her house for her, had her to dinner. Slowly all the old patterns returned. Time passed.

DIL would push her husband to call his mother, send her a card, buy her a gift etc. which he clearly did not want to do. DIL would complain, I can’t get him to do anything. He leaves it up to me. He had health issues. He was exhausted. He went to counseling, lost weight, cooked great meals, loved his grands. Worked all the time.
MIL began to push, push push. DIL was pushing on the other side. The grands tolerated her but they were adults now and preferred to not see her. One Monday morning early we get a call. The son was found on the bedroom floor passed away from a heart attack. Mid 50s.

The ever kind DIL had a nice funeral for his mother’s benefit.
She and her husband had discussed their wishes and his was no service and cremation. Of course they thought it would be many years before such an event. But the DIL gave her husband a nice service, during COVID, well attended. I watched as the MIL fussed with the flowers and casket, moved his hair and arranged it like she wanted and never acknowledged her DIL and I thought to myself for the millionth time… This woman is nuts.
The DIL looked on and was fine.

Later MIL continued to come to family events at DIL home but would not even say hello to the DIL. She would swamp the grands. Finally she went one step too far with the GD one day recently and got called to task.
I waited to see what tales would come my way. How she would spin this. Crickets. But it’s early days and she’ll be sharing with her church friends and forget what really happened.

The GD stood up to her GM and cut her off at the knees when the GM tried to blame the current snafu on her DIL, GD mom.
The GD who has had a ringside seat all the years her mom had tried to build peace was not having it.

The DIL told her daughter…You will have to forgive her or it will eat you up. She is family…DIL still pushing. In a sad way, she’s still doing what her MIL does. Trying to control the narrative. it’s hard to break a generational dysfunction.

I was proud of the GD. She had put up with so much from her GM when she was a child. Now the GM was trying the same tactics on GD 5 yr old trying to instill “FOG” into her little GGD. The GD knows what she sees and put a stop to it.

This MIL has caused great harm. If DIL doesn’t knock it off she’ll do the same to her DD.

DIL and her husband would have celebrated their 30th anniversary last week. So many similarities to your story.

You draw the line where you think it's best to be drawn.
This applies to in-laws, parents, siblings, anyone.
If someone can't stand a person and never had a real relationship with them they should not feel obligated to do for them. Just because a person is in someone's life for many years or they're a relative, does not mean they're owed something from people they've never treated well or been close with.
If your husband is limits his contact with his mother, he has reasons for this. Don't push him to visit her or even see her if it's not what he wants to do.
As far as you're concerned, you don't owe her a thing.

I have a great relationship with my MiL

My wife has a great relationship with both my parents.

We plan on keeping these relationships great by continuing to live in different cities or states than they do, and never considering even for the slightest fraction of a second having them live with us.

Your husband already draws his line at NOT having a relationship with his mother. Why do you force him to have a relationship with an abusive viper? Do you want him to keep getting bitten over and over? Why? Oh, is it because she gave birth to him and that entitles her to abuse him for the rest of her life?

How about he forces YOU to have a relationship with his viper mother? Would you like that? There's nothing virtuous about having to be abused by a parent.

I already said my bit--but I didn't address that DH had a huge blowup with his mom a few months after I divorced her. I was not privy to this, but I guess she just lost her cookies on him b/c he wouldn't agree with her about how awful 'I' am. What a weird conversation---and why?

B/C she NEEDS to be right and everything needs to fit HER narrative.

She actually ended up telling him to f-off and go to H3ll. (I bet that coming out of a 90 yo woman's mouth, it was funny or heartbreaking--) and he said he would do just that.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! Anyway, he came home, angry, upset and sad. I let him simmer for a few days than gave him some reading material on Narc Moms. He was astounded! Said he didn't know it was a 'thing'.

He needs help to get over this and won't seek it. We don't talk about her, much and if he's speaking to her, almost a year later, I don't know about it.

He has said, quite a few times, that he wishes I hadn't 'blown up' at her, b/c he liked to take me with him to visit--using me as an excuse to skip out after a half hour. Hey--she made her choices and she is living with the consequences.

We have 5 kids and 14 grands. She doesn't know the name of any of them. Their parents, our kids, have kept them away from her pretty effectively.

Really? It's sad and NOT what I would have chosen.

Midkid, "We have 5 kids and 14 grands. She doesn't know the name of any of them."

This made me laugh because my MIL, it seems, never called my daughter by her name, it was always "the girl" and she only has 4 grandchildren. Seems my SIL reminded her. She paid more attention to my daughter, I brought into the marriage, then her own granddaughter. I think it was just her showing family "look how I have excepted Js daughter"

My MIL was a hard women to understand. Just when I thought I understood her, she would do something new. She was a habitual liar. My GF, her niece, said everyone was aware of her lies but they didn't hurt anyone so family over looked it.  I told my GF that they hurt me. And TG I had her Mom to put the rest of the family straight. If I visited her alone she would tell my husband I said one thing when I said another. Making herself look good. DH would come home and tell me what she said and then I tell him what I actually said. He used to say "she tends to exaggerate". I never said anything but I think he was just trying to be his nice self.

I did not encourage him to do or not do. He has a mind of his own. I would have never cared for her. Her sweetness with other people was a facade. When she didn't get her way, she was pouty and nasty in a subtle way. I saw that nasty side and found my husband would always be on my side. She seemed to be in competition with her 3 DILs. She had a husband who loved her and was a very nice man. Two sons lived 8 and 12 hrs away from her. We lived 16. The two sons never came home to live after graduating college. My DH stayed in the same town. TG she moved to FL. Not sure what our life would have been like after FIL passed at the age of 71. She lived 20 more years. And that whole time trying to talk my DH into moving there until I finally said "not going to happen".

Your husband does not need to have a relationship with his Mom. You have no idea what she was like when he was a child. He has probably tried but has come to the realization he can't deal with her anymore. Its not easy coming to that decision and finally excepting that you can't be around your own mother. So please, stop forcing him to see her.

Sorry to say, she has made her own bed. Please, never consider caring for her. You can help her find resources. If she has money, you can suggest she hire help, go to an AL. If no money, then she can get Medicaid to help in home care or her going to LTC and them footing the bill. A crisis will happen. She'll wind up in the hospital then rehab and if 24/7 care and no one to care for her she will be transferred to LTC because rehabs cannot do an "unsafe discharge". The State will take over her care.

I think we are all compassionate people but sad to say there are those who play on that compassion. Yes, I too felt sorry for my MIL but she made her bed. She wanted things her way. And that was DH moving to FL. When I said I would not leave my Mom, she said bring her with you. I said at her age I was not uprooting her from Friends and her Church. My MIL said "we all have to compromise" I didn't but should have said "and what are you compromising".

What goes around comes around.

Lealonnie post as always to the point and well written. I do not need to add anything to her honest reply because I agree 100% with her.

Stop forcing your husband to have a relationship with his mother. Be grateful that he is man enough to keep that "viper" out of your lives and protect his marriage. Stop worrying about his mother and follow his lead when it comes to his mother.

I won’t do any caregiving at all for my in-laws. And my husband fully supports that. They aren’t bad people, but they also have been self absorbed for as long as I’ve known them, taking little interest in us or our children. Our now adult kids all say they feel no obligation to visit them, a relationship was never established by my disinterested in laws. They’re showing many more signs of aging issues now, but we’re not jumping in. Do what gives you peace, nothing more

Your husband can decide to do as much or as little as he chooses in helping to arrange for or “manage” her care. Nowhere is it written that ones child must care for their parent as they age and the the way we choose to treat people, including family, throughout life are also the only way we can expect to be treated later in life even though some get lucky. Your husband doesn’t have to have a close relationship with his mom though I suspect your reminding or urging him to go see her is more because you feel it’s important for him in the end and you know him best. Visiting once in a while does not mean either of you need to do any personal or hands on care however.

Do you or your husband have any idea what if anything she may have set up? Does he have any legal authority to help? If not maybe she has made her statement and if she has set that up and he chooses to take on any responsibility for the arrangements you can either choose to support HIM by helping behind the scenes or simply providing moral support, it’s entirely up to each of you independently and together. Either way discussing it together is going to help you both through this as involved or not you are attached as family and will be privy to whatever happens. You have no legal or moral responsibility to her, your responsibility is only to your husband and it sounds like he is either conflicted himself or has made his decision and you need to have a discussion together about that. At least IMHO (in my humble opinion)

You already know what to do. She's nasty, imperfect and not deserving of any kindness or consideration: Model the behavior for your kids and grandkids that they'll need for your future care. Job done.

You make your husband see his mother? Why? Do you feel that in some way it's your responsibility to maintain their relationship? You certainly have no obligation at all in relating to your MIL, nor does he, unless you feel some guilt in not requiring him to see her, which seems very doubtful. His not wanting anything to do with his mother apparently has some history behind it. Obligation is a moral issue. If he's morally OK with that, let it be.

You answered your own question. You won’t do anything that eventually may need to be done. So she’ll have caregivers and there goes the inheritance.

The limits you've listed on caring for your in-laws are the same I had for caring for my dear parents - not because I hated them or they were toxic, but because it's hard physical work that I felt I wouldn't be capable of doing well. It's not like I shunned them physically, but when incontinence and other issues that arise with being wheelchair-bound came up, I was fortunate that my parents had the financial wherewithal to get them help to do the difficult physical caregiving. If your mother-in-law doesn't have enough savings, she may need to go on Medicaid or be part of other low-income programs. It's a personal choice, but I feel that many of us at midlife and beyond should not be expected to do hands-on care on a regular basis because it's very wearing and draining and we're asking for injury and burnout if we try to take on full care. If a family wishes to take on that personal care, it is most appropriate to share it among several grown children and grandchildren, not just one, and to supplement with some in-home paid caregivers.

Interesting how you put this.

I consider it our responsibility to make sure our "seniors" - both moms, my dad, my unmarried aunt - are safe and healthy if they are no longer mentally competent. It is harder with my dad who is an alcoholic and has mental health issues; he wants nothing to do with the family. He is considered mentally competent so he is responsible for his own life choices. My MIL lives in out of state with no family nearby, her choice, and is cared for by 2 caregivers in her condo. She is safe and healthy and well cared for. When her finances are gone, then we (BIL and my husband) will make other arrangements.

Depends on how much you really love them, you will do whatever is needed.

but in your case, doesn't seem there is even a Like fir you MIL.
So, in that case your husband should help his Mom look a few Nursing Homes and help her get move in.

You do not need to hands-on care for anyone, in-laws or otherwise. You might help arrange for paid help as needed, but you don't need to do any care taking that you choose not to do.

My MIL is a drama queen who is lazy and entitled. I am very businesslike and like to get things done. As a general rule, I won't do anything for her that she CAN do herself. This sounds like common sense, but we're talking extreme laziness and extremely entitled. However, I think she caught on to me over the years that I wasn't coming over unless it was honest to goodness something she can't do - so she upped the stakes. One time there was a simple task which she WAS capable of doing, but she built a case that I should do it for her because she "might fall" while completing it. Hmmmm.... I thought it over and decided it was in MY best interest to just do it. MIL is such a liar that she would have constructed a situation where she "fell" or otherwise should not have been doing said task and now she's "injured" and needs to see a Dr, have new meds, go for PT, and all these things that would have been more work for me in the long run than just going over there to complete the task in the first place. Not to mention all her stories told to other family members that I didn't help her and how she's at death's door (and the time I would then spend repairing my reputation and getting the truth out there). So, currently, things I do for her are things where it's just simpler and easier on ME to do it myself. It's really not specific tasks that I will or won't do. It's more a case by case decision based on circumstances and what I believe to be the truth of the matter.

Hands-on physical caregiving (the original poster’s ‘hard nos’), are better done by skilled, trained professionals who are, themselves, younger and less likely to be injured in the process. 31 years married? You’re not young, yourself. I have a hard time lifting my 20 pound cat! I could not lift, catch, or prevent a fall with a 100 lb+ person. I would not endanger my mother or MIL by imagining I could be a fantastic caregiver in that way.

Add in MommyDearestMIL’s years of resentment from an abusive person, and continued, ongoing verbal abuse, and hands-on care is a recipe for unhappiness for one and all. I would NOT want to be cared for by someone I dislike who also dislikes me! Sometimes the best thing you can do is recognize you can’t do a job by yourself, even if pure-of-heart and willing to try.

I understand how you feel. I have a MIL from hell, however, I will do whatever I can to help when the time comes. The Bible makes it plainly clear that we are to honor our Father and Mother and take care of them, along with other relatives and widows, etc. It seems like the world today has fallen into a state of "what's in it for me". Have we as a society gotten so far away from genuine human kindness? I have taken care of my grandparents for 12 years with both having Alzheimer's, no easy feat as for 6 years they lived an hour plus away and I would drop 2 kids at school and pack the baby to drive over and back before school ended. I cared for my Step-father who sexually abused me as a child while he battled cancer and my Mom needed help. I'm caring for my Mom now, after she had a stroke and part of her mental decline due to the stroke etc. has made her a much more needy person and now demanding, but she is my responsibility. I never in my life thought I would have to be a care giver to so many people, but God for some reason has put that as part of my ministry whether I want it or not. I can either do God's will or not do it, but I know that some day I will have to answers for all my choices. Some of you on here may not have any Christians values and I know that we all make choices, every day. I just know that whether they are hateful or not, we still have a responsibility to other human beings, especially our family. Without your MIL, you would not have your amazing husband or I would not have my amazing husband! Your husband and you should talk about what care is needed and see what you can do and what you should get outside help with and at least help her make decisions that will affect the rest of her life. One day, we will all be in this same position in life, needing care from another person. I pray that my children, in-laws and family make thoughtful decisions for the best care for me at the time.

Imho, my FIL was a jokester alcoholic. I tried and failed multiple times to have a serious conversation with him. My MIL passed away at age 46 so I never met her, though she was an unhappy mother of six. One of my sisters in law stated that the only thing good about her mother was her culinary skills. Quite sad. My step MIL was a very ill-minded lady.
I had a failed opportunity, if you will, in having a MIL and FIL, who were my late ex husband's parents, who was a bad man. I will leave it at that. I wasn't blessed with kind in laws or any in laws.

No in-laws to have to worry about. They both passed long ago, younger than I am now.

But I keep thinking about what my boundaries will be with my own parents and hope I will figure out how to hold firm to them when the time comes. I currently cook and do their laundry and we split the cost of a housecleaner for our shared home. I'm trying to prepare my dad for my mom to go into care with her dementia. He can't care for her and I won't be able to (or won't want to, if it involves incontinence), so we're visiting AL/MC facilities now. They saved well and have the funds for care, so they need to spend it on others giving them the care.

Sally i have had to put my mom in a nursing home as i just can't take care of her n I love her dearly. As for my mil who treats my husband badly n he has pulled away from her I wouldn't do a thing. She asked if we were hoi g to care fir my mom n we said no so sge knows we won't be caring for her in the future.

Your husband has already resolved the issue. He doesn’t want a relationship with her. I wouldn’t force him to have a connection with her.

You don’t like anything she stands for, so are you concerned about this? Stay out of it. Do you want your husband to drag you into this mess or resent you for interfering with his decision not to become involved with her?

I adored my mother in law because she was thoughtful and kind. I didn’t have to set boundaries with her because she never overstepped. She didn’t expect me to be her savior. I wish that I could say the same for my father in law. He was a rat through and through. My husband wanted nothing to do with him. Guess what? I don’t blame him. I didn’t make him feel as if he had to have a relationship with him after he showed his true colors. I used to be sad that he and his dad wasn’t close like my dad and I were, so I tried to encourage healing between them. Do you know what my husband said to me, “Your father has always been more of a dad to me than my own dad.” So, I let it go. I never interfered again.

Let it go. Don’t push your husband to continue in a relationship. You can’t force his mom to be a loving mother or mother in law.

Focus on what is good in your life, disregard what isn’t, because it isn’t worth your time or energy. I don’t believe in wishing others harm and I no longer yearn to change what I can’t. I simply accept it. I am a lot better off now. I have peace and am happier. Do not ever allow anyone else to steal your joy! I learned this from my therapist awhile back. He was right. Why should we let others steal our joy because they are miserable? Misery loves company. Don’t take the bait and then they can’t hurt you.

I feel sorry for those who are struggling and are miserable, but I am not going to join them on any level. I feel sorry for anyone who feels like they have an obligation to these people and volunteer to help. We cannot help anyone who doesn’t want our help. All that we can do, if we choose to, is hope they find help from another source. If they do, that’s great. Bottom line, it is their problem, not mine.

I suppose that I have become more of a realist as I grow older and hopefully wiser. I was a dreamer or an idealist when I was younger. After being kicked in the gut a few times, that changed my way of thinking.

I would like to believe that I haven’t become apathetic, because I do believe in hope. Without hope, we have nothing. I don’t feel that I have to be the one to solve the problems of all of the world’s dysfunctional people!

I can't tell others what to do but I will say this. If I had a member in the family who was and is so negative, I would have broken ties long ago. But now this person wants help. So what? Don't be a fool now - stay away. They made their bed, so let them lie in it. Do NOT get involved. It will be hell for you and why on earth should YOU suffer when they were the problem. NO - NO - NO.

I COMPLETELY agree about following your husband's lead and staying as far away as possible from your MIL. Caregiving is hard enough with a positive relationship. Do not walk into a toxic caregiver situation. The potential for it to get worse, and for you to get stuck, is just too great.

That said, I care for my mom in an appreciative situation. But, it struck me that the things you listed I would not do for my mom: bathing, toileting, and toe nails -unless and until she is bedridden. The reason for this is that I think I can best provide care for my mom when I keep a layer of distance and dignity in our relationship. I think she would respond better to a home health aide providing these supports, and our mother/daughter relationship can stay relatively intact if I do not go there. I have witnessed my grandparents fight their daughters over these types of tasks. I fear as a daughter-in-law with a disrespectful relationship with your MIL, these caregiving tasks would become a battle - and you would lose, quickly.

Two big caveats I have:
1. I am not to this point, yet, but it is on the horizon as my mom is 90 years old - so I am thinking about these tasks more. My mom is cognizant enough to tell me what she wants, and I think I know she would pick a paid caregiver.

2. I am lucky that my mom will have the financial ability for me to call in a home health aide if/when needed. In large part this is because I have supported her in her home for 5 years at a tremendous savings over Assisted Living.

As a side note: I also don't clean my mom's home. I am happy to cook for her, and do yardwork. But, I pay someone else to clean. Again, I am keeping my mom safe, secure, and as physically/ emotionally/cognitively healthy as possible, and I do it joyfully. A large part of that joy comes from knowing what my boundaries are and picking what I want to do for and with her - and outsourcing the rest. For the last 5 years, so far, so good.

I wish you luck in finding someone else to care for your MIL.