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Does he have dementia? Call the police about fraud. Get guardianship and handle all the finances. Is he competent? Step back and allow him to make his own decisions. Tell him you will be there if he ever needs you.
How you handle it depends on whether or not he's competent to make his own decisions. My father in the last years of his life pretty much blew his family off because he got involved with a much younger woman who was an absolute train wreck. An indigent scamming alcoholic with a rap sheet as long as your arm and in several states. There was nothing any of us could do because he would not listen to reason about her. Even though my father was old he was still living independently and well on his own. It was his choice. Until he had a stroke and became incapacitated. Then it was my choice because I was his POA. If your father has dementia, you will have to petition the court to appoint you conservator/guardian over him and his finances. This is not easy to do because most of the time something bad has to happen before a person is declared incompetent. If he's still competent and doesn't have dementia, then it's his choice. Let him know that you respect his choice but not to expect you to help him when this woman cleans him out then disappears like smoke on the wind. Tell him that you wash your hands of it and he has to choose. Either his family or this scammer.
Thanks for replying. So sorry to hear about your father. That sounds heart-wrenching. The problem we have is this is an internet "relationship". Someone is posing as a celebrity and milking him for thousands of dollars. He truly believes he is friends with this celebrity despite never seeing or speaking with her and there is no end in sight. He is very defensive and has almost been brainwashed by this scammer to turn against his family.
He has not been diagnosed with dementia. His mental faculties are slipping a bit but nothing has been as terrifying as this. He began some cognitive testing for dementia but stopped before they could finish so there are no official results.
I can't let him do this to my mother. If talking sense into him doesn't work, I have to protect her and her financial future, but don't know how to convince him this is not a real person or how to cut him off from their finances to protect her.
The scammer will drain him financially and then disappear. If you are not his PoA and he has a medical diagnosis of dementia, then guardianship is the only option: by you or by the county in which he resides. If you can live with him being left with nothing and then contacting APS as a vulnerable adult so that they will eventually gain guardianship, then that's an option but you will be forced to watch the train wreck with no ability to stop it. It will be challenging waiting for APS to make a move as this won't happen immediately.
If you are his PoA then read the doc to see when your authority is made legally active and then do whatever it takes to set it in motion. Shut down acccess to all his financials and assets asap, shut down his internet access to this scammer: emails, texting, etc.
Thank you so much for the reply. Are you saying the only way to get guardianship is once he is left with nothing? There has to be a way to have him deemed incompetent to manage his own finances once someone evaluates him and hears his story of being close friends with a movie star who he has never even met. This scammer is impersonating a celebrity and milking him and by association, my mother, dry.
Fortunately, I have a few leads that I can report to the police and hopefully they can track this person down, but it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.
Just talked with a friend who had this happen with her father. Long story short the caregiver opened a joint account for the both of them and siphoned off several tens of thousands of dollars. He thought she "loved" him, she was doing sexual things, she was married and the husband was also helping.
One day the caregiver shows up at the hospital. The nurses saw that she was acting atypically in trying to keep the daughter out. Dad declined physically and was put in an AL with a private caregiver. This used up most if not all of the rest of the funds.
That happened to a woman we knew here. She worked in the school system with my mom. Her husband had died, her kids were all grown up and had their own families. She was alone in the house. A scammer befriended her online and she mortgaged her house she owned free and clear and sent the scammer hundreds of thousands. over time. Her daughter found out when the mother said she had trouble paying her bills. The daughter went straight to the county prosecutors office. The FBI was able to recover some of the money for her. Then the mother did it again. That was it. They put her in an assissted living nursing home.We went to visit her there, me and my mom. It was one room, small bathroom, and a tiny kitchenette. It was nice though. She lasted a year before she died. To answer your question, go to the police and county prosecutor's office. They can go after the person scamming the elderly. If your parent doesnt get it, time to go to court maybe to get the power and make all the decisions, like the daughter in the story i posted did.
Thank you for the reply, such a sad story. I actually spoke to the police today and they weren't even sure whether there's enough for a case if the victim doesn't think they're a victim. And of course, once we call police, FBI, etc., my dad will most likely be even angrier with us, especially my mother. We're worried that will just be the end of their marriage because he's been so brainwashed by this scammer. But maybe eventually if the authorities can prove it's a scam, he would have to acknowledge it and come to his senses and maybe there's some hope for them.
I've found that often the authorities don't aggressively pursue scam cases unless it's an astronomical amount of money or it involves a lot of victims. I lived in a condo in which the building manager embezzled well over 100,000 and despite filing police report and finding other buildings that he embezzled from, as well, that building manager is still a free man, living life with hundreds of thousands of dollars that he stole from innocent people.
If your mom is competent, get her to their bank and have her report this activity so they can shut it down at their end. If he's using credit cards somehow, cancel them if you can. Send a letter to all the credit reporting agencies that he's being scammed and freeze his credit if you can. (Look up how to do it.)
He endangering your mother's finances as well as his own, so he needs to be cut off from them. On another thread here, someone recently used the term "financial abuse" of a spouse who is not on board with financial decisions, and that's exactly what this is.
Your dad is clearly not competent, because he'd know a celebrity doesn't need his money. His ability to reason is defective, so you should also alert his doctor as to what's going on and get him in for a cognition test. (Tell the doctor he needs it, not Dad. He'll never agree to it.)
You're so right, he's clearly not competent in this case. Even though most of the time he seems fine, this is outrageous for him to believe. He actually did take a cognition test but walked out before it was over, we think because he knew he would fail.
My mother told my father that she was refusing to pay for all the charges he's racked up on the credit cards, so he opened 3 new credit cards on his own. We are trying to figure out how to stop him from using those. She's not named on the account so it seems like she has no legal recourse. How do we convince the credit agencies that he's being scammed? That's the big question... And how do we shut down his new cards that are only in his name? That's the other really big question! Thanks again for replying to this.
I don’t know how it’s done in the US, but I gather that there is a way to separate the assets of a couple. Find out how to do it ASAP. If it upsets the apple cart, so what? Him getting cross with mother now is a lot better than him ruining her and then both of them ending up desperate and angry.
In Oz there are official anti-scammer sites that explain exactly how this all works. Surely there must be some in the US? Google scam! Most of them stress never sending money to someone you have never seen. Most also point out that the scammer for males is often male themselves, not the expected lovely lady. And for ladies, it’s a false file photo. Could you get father to read some of the anti- scammer sites, look for their ‘tests’, and try them out “just to be sure”? Say it's to prove he is right and you are wrong!
Thanks for the advice! This was basically our plan for the next step, hoping to sort of diplomatically de-escalate the situation. I've found some articles about this type of scam that list situations similar to what he's experiencing. But I want to find a few more, hopefully ones that are EXACTLY like his situation so we can present them to him. Hopefully it will be like holding up a mirror and he will finally see his situation for what it is.
We've already talked to him about sending money to someone he's never met and he won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with it. He's never spoken to or seen this person, just believes he's chatting with a movie star online. So sad because he was always such a rational person, especially with money, taught me how to be frugal, how to save, and also how to enjoy the money that you have saved. And now he thinks he's investing in bitcoin and helping out a celebrity friend who has tons of implausible excuses for needing money.
I will keep contacting elder law attorneys until I can get someone on the phone to explain options. From what I've read, it's very hard to separate a married couple's finances unless you file for divorce or declare your spouse incompetent, both of which take a lot of time. If it were easy, imagine how many people might just get angry at their spouse and remove all their funds. It generally has to be proven that the spouse is incapable of managing their money.
I think therapeutic fibs will be needed to get Dad to the Doctor "for a checkup" to finish the cognitive screening & then full cog assessment. IF possible. If not, Mom goes alone for advice.
More fibs to visit a lawyer "to get our money sorted". She explains she would like his help with this. But if he won't go, she goes alone. For advice on closing accounts & opening her own for bills/minor funds & possibly a trust for major funds.
Fraud is one of my 4Fs of decline that are real safey concerns. I would be researching paths of actions too!
Competency can vary over domains. Eg someone may have lost judgement for financial decisions but still have capacity for their own health decisions.
Someone can be supeoned to court & asked to prove their capacity. But.
I image this takes much time. I also image this causes much stress & anger.
Whether you stay completely within the law, follow the legal advice, maybe try for guardianship or go rouge & accidentally-on-purpose break his computer & hide his wallet (to stall) - that's up to you.
I know of a person that watered down the whiskey & 'misplaced' the real stuff in the house so they didn't have to label it *stealing*. The Doctor said no more whiskey with those meds & frequent falls. He had become impossible, risk taking, verbally violent & threatening physical violence. That old chap was showing many signs of cog decline but nothing as yet dx. Nothing dire had happened yet to trigger guardianship but the kids made a judgement call to remove the object of harm (whiskey) that was endangering their Mother.
Thanks for all these ideas. We're monitoring his accounts and I'm going to visit him next week so I can try to examine his computer and phone and find out how he is contacting this person and pass that information on to the authorities. Worst case, I may have to delete his email, Facebook account and everything so that this person can't reach him. He will be upset but not sure what else to do in the short-term if rational thought continues to elude him. Long-term, we will definitely be exploring all the options you suggested.
Thanks for the links. Only problem is the person scamming him is pretending to be a celebrity. He thinks he is literally friends with an actual movie star. She sent him a picture of herself and he somehow thinks that means it's actually her, somehow not realizing that anyone can copy a picture from the internet and send it!
And regarding finances, I suppose I didn't phrase it clearly. Since they have joint accounts, I'm not sure how you separate their funds. From people I've spoken with, he would have to be declared incompetent, have someone take guardianship over him or my mom would have to legally separate from him. Expecting calls back from several attorneys on Monday. Thanks again for trying to help, really appreciate it!
Can you some how disable his computer? Plug cords into the wrong ports, lose the mouse etc etc? Get in and change his password so he can't get online? Sure it's underhanded, but I agree, your concern should be your mom.
Believe it or not, you need to report this to the FBI in your state. If you have phone numbers from the scammers, give that number to them. At any rate, one of the problems with elder care is not reporting. Some states also have an elder abuse line that includes help with financial scamming, not just physical abuse. If they're calling on a cell phone, I suggest changing the number. If its by internet, block the contact whether it's Facebook, email or some social media site. The attorney you have called might be able to get a judge to put a hold on the bank accounts. I can tell you from personal experience that the banks may be willing to talk to you about a temporary hold on funds.
Please have your loved one evaluated by a medical doctor for mental competency and dementia. The first signs of dementia usually involves difficulties with decision-making about finances and/or loss of good judgment. If your loved one tests positive for cognitive mental impairment of any kind, take action to protect them online (set up child controls on computer) and take away access to finances. A helpful "fib" is to say that the bank account has been hacked. Take away the debit card and/or credit card and give a reloadable gift card that looks like a debit/credit card for their use.
Thanks, this is good advice. My mother actually convinced him to undergo testing a few months ago. It was a three part process, he quit after the 2nd part, most likely because he realized that the results would not be good. We will talk to his doctor again to see how we can move forward with a diagnosis, even if we have to be very creative as to how to get him to the doctor's office. We can't take away cards until we can get him to admit he has a problem or have him declared mentally incompetent to manage his own finances by his doctor.
Document everything. Report to IC3.gov (Internet Crime Complaint Center). File a police report -- this is only for the record because they police won't do anything, but at least you have documentation.
Ask dad why a celebrity needs his money. Look up celebrity's home and show it to him.
Is dad mailing the money or transferring it electronically?
If mailing, look up the address he is sending to and ask him why the celebrity would have mail sent to that address. (In my father's case, a FedEx employee showed him the address -- an abandoned trailer in a run-down trailer park -- and that was what got him to start thinking that maybe things weren't so up and up.)
If transferring electronically, google "fraud EFTs" (too much info for me to put here).
Thanks this is great advice. Have already tried every rational argument as to why a movie star wouldn't need his money, that she would have dozens of people who work for her or close friends who would help her if she were truly in a financial bind.
We think he is buying gift cards because there are large charges at stores like CVS and Walgreens. We think he's scratching off the cards and giving the numbers to someone, either through email or Hangouts. He's not transferring electronically. The scammer is too smart for that.
@frjone, you are reacting to this far too mildly and taking tangential steps rather than facing head-on that your mother’s life is heading for complete disaster.
Your father’s current path is going to drain every penny for your mother’s future, while you slowly try to get a doctor to finish testing him for dementia, etc… and look for gentle solutions which won’t upset him too much. At this point, who cares if it’s dementia, or pure evil intent? Who cares if he is upset?
You said “…it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.” You also wrote “…he is willing to abandon his family for his scammer.” What more do you need to know? Your mother’s future is going to be hellish if he first drains her funds and then leaves her, so your options are to either let her be entirely destroyed, or you get her disconnected from him proactively starting today. There is no alternative.
Get a hard hitting lawyer today to assist in splitting the assets, and discuss divorce. Your father is no longer the father you knew, and the husband your mother chose, so you are trying to save something no longer there. Do not let your mother go down. Unless this is straightened out quickly, a divorce might be the only thing to save your mother’s future. You may have to let your dad sink his own ship.
Yes, of course do continue with alerting all authorities such as IC3.gov, your parents’ known banks fraud division, local police, FBI and all others your new lawyer will recommend.
Additionally, ask the new lawyer if it would be wise for him/her to draft and send a letterhead letter to the celebrity’s professional manager and professional agent, both. Virtually all genuine celebrities have both a manager and an agent. The lawyer must alert them that someone is using the celebrity’s good name to con money from one innocent old man, and most likely from other gullible eldsters, too. The celebrity’s own people might be able to take back-end action to nail the fraudster in order to save the celebrity’s reputation even if the FBI, police, bankers etc don’t act for you.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I think you need the biggest wake up call of your life, and I am trying to be the alarm bell for you. Do not drag your feet, this is beyond serious, I am sick at heart for the dangerous situation your mother is in, and I feel dreadful for you, too. After the money is safely split, then and only then can you feel sorry for your father. Until then you need to consider him and his scammer “friend” the enemy.
If your father gives the scammer all his and your mother’s money, they will likely have to ultimately become wards of the state. It is better that only your father walk that path, if the experts aren’t able to stop the fraudster from draining everything. So split out your mother’s life monetarily and matrimonially from your father’s ill-advised friendship and money-draining operation starting today.
You are 100% right. Thanks for your honesty! I have spoken to the police and an attorney and we have already restricted his access to most of his accounts, now trying to get a handle on the new credit cards that he opened solely in his name. At this point, he can't take any more money out of accounts, he can only charge on his credit cards.
They live out of state, so I'm going there this week to start handling things in person and support my mother through the process as she may have to watch her husband, a proud man with a long history of hard work and dedication to his family, get stripped of his dignity. And I'm in full agreement with you that this is about protecting my mother's financial future and her current emotional well-being. I can't afford to feel sorry for him, just have to do what's right.
The only way to have him completely restricted from any financial transactions is to have doctor pronounce him incapable. If he refuses to go to the doctor, as is his current right, it is very complicated and time-consuming to legally prevent him from transacting. We will of course do it, but it could take months and be very stressful for my mother, who is having surgery this week (great timing, right?), so we are trying to shut down as much access as we can right now, limit him to just the two new credit cards he opened and then focus on convincing him to go to the doctor. Otherwise, sadly, we will have to do it against his will. I hope to have a promising update next week.
Thanks again for being so straightforward and offering options. Appreciate it.
If all acounts are joint, take Mom to the bank(s) and take out all funds. Move them into a separate acount that doesn't have his name on it. All legal, and takes a few hours at most. Mom's liquid assets are now protected, at least what is left of them. Do this for all joint accounts, investments, trusts, etc. Make sure income is directed to these new accounts if possible.
You won't be able to change the title if they jointly own their home, but he should not be able to mortage it without her signature. He might be able to get a HELOC (home equity line of credit) but that at least limits the damage he can do, and he would have to be able to get himself to the bank and complete the paperwork.
See if you can hide his driver's license, passport, or any other legal ID. Without them he can't get any more credit and he might not be able to go through the process to recover them.
Is Mom on board with you protecting her? Or is she an enabler? Will she give him back everything if confronted? Can she pay bills, etc. or does someone else need to be responsible? Is she committed to the marriage or does she want out?
This is really messy, but necessary. I wish you luck.
Thanks for your suggestions! Fortunately, my mom is not an enabler. She has refused to help him pay any credit cards or withdraw money now that she realizes the extent of it. But he still has two new credit cards he opened on his own that she doesn't have access to.
I don't think she will give everything back if confronted, but it will be very hard on her if she is seen as the one masterminding this plot against him, which we fear is how my dad is viewing it. He's been turned against her by his scammer, he clearly has an emotional connection to this person pretending to a be a celebrity he is enamored with. So we are enlisting help from financial advisor, attorney, etc. so that it's not all on her.
We realize that if he doesn't come to his senses and eventually see the truth for what it is, that the marriage may be over. I think mom understands that. It's obviously soul-crushing, but she'd rather end the marriage than watch him blow their life savings and live in a fantasy world.
Contact an attorney TODAY! Get your mom down to the bank TODAY and have your mom withdraw ALL the money from all their accounts that she's allowed and put it in an account of her own so he can't get to it. Also, have her name removed from any cards. If that's impossible, she'll have to eat it or to pay off the cards and then have her name removed. Take out a card in her own name. She's going to need to take charge of HER life. Also TODAY, get the computer out of the house and any phones with internet capabilities. If possible, mom needs to leave the home cause he's going to be furious. She can then contact any financial institutions and have monthly income she's entitled to to go to her account. Any bills with her name on it needs to have her name removed. She may have to have that bill paid in full. Then contact police and report this. If they dont direct you to the FBI, contact them and report it. Also, make copies of any statements to show proof of what he's been doing. Good luck and get this done TODAY! He'll moan groan whine and commonality that she's also taking his half, but he's been giving her half away. He also needs to be checked for dementia. It only takes a visit or 2 with a geriatric nurse practitioner. It's most important to get your mom out of that situation. Good luck!
GET AN ELDERCARE SPECIALIST ATTORNEY AT ONCE - N O W. And report this to the Attorney General's office - the library can find you the number. This man is stupid and has dementia and must be controlled and stopped. Notify all creditors at once and get legal papers so YOU can take over and have something to say. Also talk to the Adult Protective Services Agency.
Justa quick thought - have you asked Dad to set up a video chat with his new best friend? Encourage him. Have Mom encourage him. Challenge him if need be.
Oh my, I went through this too with my Dad. Those scammers will not stop at anything. I even called the phone co., the local police and the FBI to try to get help. FBI did show up, a year later as they actually found them. Unfortunately Dad passed a week before. My wish is that I could have gotten help sooner. I should of taken away all devices that they contacted him with, (they also send letters too, so be sure to have mail sent to you through the post office.) So very sorry this is happening to your family, prayers for strength
I'm so sorry to hear what you went through, I appreciate you sharing. I actually just spent a week with my parents. It was exhausting and painful at times, but it seems I got through to my dad. He's closed his accounts and accepted that he was scammed. Now we just hope he will be willing to be evaluated so that we can get him the best care he needs.
I feel so bad for you! This happened to us. The con artist (a caretaker)convinced my FIL that she is his fiancee, moved in, convinced him to give her and her family hundreds of thousands of dollars: convinced him, through outlandish lies, we suspect drugs, and even hypnotherapy (she took a course as she is currently studying to be a family counselor), that his family and friends are out to harm him. She answers the phone when friends call and tells them he doesn't ever want to hear from them again, and has blocked all of our phone numbers on his phone. We hired an attorney, contacted the police and APS, and got the courts involved. Long story short, she and my FIL convinced them that this is what he wants (now it is, after all of her manipulations). And, because she intercepts calls and mail, and has cameras all over the house and driveway to monitor him, family and friends can't visit. If they do, she calls the police, then has my FIL request restraining orders against them saying that he fears for his life because his 85-year-old friends of 50 years are trying to harm him. I know this sounds ridiculous, but it happened. The legal system is not set up to protect against con artists regarding their manipulation of elders, unless the elder has been deemed incompetent. We may realize that lonely elderly people can easily be influenced, but the courts do not.
Oh there is a special circle of heck for these scammers!! Contact APS as they may have contacts they can direct you to, help you get to the person who can help you at the local police station, the county district attorney/fraud investigators, and state police fraud unit. He is being defrauded, and needs legal help and protection for his share of their assets. Your mom needs help to get their assets split and her portion secured (out of reach by him, so he cannot give her resources to scammer.) The reality that this is a significant change from his baseline personality and money management behavior is a sign of inability to understand the consequences of his actions. Scammers provide affection, TLC, and try hard to turn their victim away from family - raising suspicions that family members are trying to get his money from him, that they are jealous of his pretty lady, etc. Keep track of your calls, who you speak to, what actions you take, etc. Once the money is gone, it is very very. hard to get it back. Focus on stopping the scam. A court can appoint a conservator for him - to manage his resources (money, valuable property, etc. Can't place him in a care home, etc. And not for medical care. ) Do what you can.
There's not a lot you can do if your father has not been declared incompetent. This happened to my father. He got scammed by a much younger woman who was an alcoholic prostitute. He would not hear a word against her, so we had no choice but to just let him crash and burn which is exactly what happened. She went through everything he had then when his time of need came his affairs were a total mess. All you can do is what you can. If your father wants to get scammed, so be it. Make sure he knows that you will not help him after this scammer takes it all.
There are basically two courses of action: 1. Raise Cain. . Refuse to interact with parent unless scammer is out of the home. Check your (and parent’s) legal rights to allow scammer to access finances. Sue parent. 2. If you have no legal way to intervene and raising Cain is not working: Consider the long run. Treat your parent with respect and love. When your parent dies you’ll have good memories and know you’ve done the best you could. My grandmother married a scoundrel (gambler, womanizer, spendthrift). She had two daughters - my mother and her sister, my aunt. My mother continued her relationship with her mother as if nothing happened. My aunt raised useless and hurtful hell. My mother taught me and my 3 siblings a great lesson. Once her mother was gone, there was time to lash out at the scoundrel and stop contact. But while she was alive, my mother and all of her children were free to maintain regular and loving contact with our grandmother. To do otherwise causes grandmother great emotional harm. If the attempts to intervene were about money, and those would have failed, what great harm to sweet grandmother.
I wonder why old posts like this are not closed for more comments. They can be left so people can read the different comments and possible solutions if they are having the same problem.
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Is he competent? Step back and allow him to make his own decisions. Tell him you will be there if he ever needs you.
My father in the last years of his life pretty much blew his family off because he got involved with a much younger woman who was an absolute train wreck. An indigent scamming alcoholic with a rap sheet as long as your arm and in several states. There was nothing any of us could do because he would not listen to reason about her.
Even though my father was old he was still living independently and well on his own. It was his choice.
Until he had a stroke and became incapacitated. Then it was my choice because I was his POA.
If your father has dementia, you will have to petition the court to appoint you conservator/guardian over him and his finances. This is not easy to do because most of the time something bad has to happen before a person is declared incompetent.
If he's still competent and doesn't have dementia, then it's his choice. Let him know that you respect his choice but not to expect you to help him when this woman cleans him out then disappears like smoke on the wind. Tell him that you wash your hands of it and he has to choose. Either his family or this scammer.
He has not been diagnosed with dementia. His mental faculties are slipping a bit but nothing has been as terrifying as this. He began some cognitive testing for dementia but stopped before they could finish so there are no official results.
I can't let him do this to my mother. If talking sense into him doesn't work, I have to protect her and her financial future, but don't know how to convince him this is not a real person or how to cut him off from their finances to protect her.
If you are his PoA then read the doc to see when your authority is made legally active and then do whatever it takes to set it in motion. Shut down acccess to all his financials and assets asap, shut down his internet access to this scammer: emails, texting, etc.
Fortunately, I have a few leads that I can report to the police and hopefully they can track this person down, but it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.
One day the caregiver shows up at the hospital. The nurses saw that she was acting atypically in trying to keep the daughter out. Dad declined physically and was put in an AL with a private caregiver. This used up most if not all of the rest of the funds.
I've found that often the authorities don't aggressively pursue scam cases unless it's an astronomical amount of money or it involves a lot of victims. I lived in a condo in which the building manager embezzled well over 100,000 and despite filing police report and finding other buildings that he embezzled from, as well, that building manager is still a free man, living life with hundreds of thousands of dollars that he stole from innocent people.
He endangering your mother's finances as well as his own, so he needs to be cut off from them. On another thread here, someone recently used the term "financial abuse" of a spouse who is not on board with financial decisions, and that's exactly what this is.
Your dad is clearly not competent, because he'd know a celebrity doesn't need his money. His ability to reason is defective, so you should also alert his doctor as to what's going on and get him in for a cognition test. (Tell the doctor he needs it, not Dad. He'll never agree to it.)
My mother told my father that she was refusing to pay for all the charges he's racked up on the credit cards, so he opened 3 new credit cards on his own. We are trying to figure out how to stop him from using those. She's not named on the account so it seems like she has no legal recourse. How do we convince the credit agencies that he's being scammed? That's the big question... And how do we shut down his new cards that are only in his name? That's the other really big question! Thanks again for replying to this.
In Oz there are official anti-scammer sites that explain exactly how this all works. Surely there must be some in the US? Google scam! Most of them stress never sending money to someone you have never seen. Most also point out that the scammer for males is often male themselves, not the expected lovely lady. And for ladies, it’s a false file photo. Could you get father to read some of the anti- scammer sites, look for their ‘tests’, and try them out “just to be sure”? Say it's to prove he is right and you are wrong!
We've already talked to him about sending money to someone he's never met and he won't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with it. He's never spoken to or seen this person, just believes he's chatting with a movie star online. So sad because he was always such a rational person, especially with money, taught me how to be frugal, how to save, and also how to enjoy the money that you have saved. And now he thinks he's investing in bitcoin and helping out a celebrity friend who has tons of implausible excuses for needing money.
I will keep contacting elder law attorneys until I can get someone on the phone to explain options. From what I've read, it's very hard to separate a married couple's finances unless you file for divorce or declare your spouse incompetent, both of which take a lot of time. If it were easy, imagine how many people might just get angry at their spouse and remove all their funds. It generally has to be proven that the spouse is incapable of managing their money.
More fibs to visit a lawyer "to get our money sorted". She explains she would like his help with this. But if he won't go, she goes alone. For advice on closing accounts & opening her own for bills/minor funds & possibly a trust for major funds.
Fraud is one of my 4Fs of decline that are real safey concerns. I would be researching paths of actions too!
Competency can vary over domains. Eg someone may have lost judgement for financial decisions but still have capacity for their own health decisions.
Someone can be supeoned to court & asked to prove their capacity. But.
I image this takes much time.
I also image this causes much stress & anger.
Whether you stay completely within the law, follow the legal advice, maybe try for guardianship or go rouge & accidentally-on-purpose break his computer & hide his wallet (to stall) - that's up to you.
I know of a person that watered down the whiskey & 'misplaced' the real stuff in the house so they didn't have to label it *stealing*. The Doctor said no more whiskey with those meds & frequent falls. He had become impossible, risk taking, verbally violent & threatening physical violence. That old chap was showing many signs of cog decline but nothing as yet dx. Nothing dire had happened yet to trigger guardianship but the kids made a judgement call to remove the object of harm (whiskey) that was endangering their Mother.
One technique is to use photos. There are commercial ‘check the scammer’ sites as well. Here are a few
https://www.romancescams.org/how-to-outsmart-a-romance-scammer/
https://www.romancescams.org
https://scamdigger.com/pictures-used-by-female-scammers
Don’t to do all this yourself. You are taking on experts in a big business.
And regarding finances, I suppose I didn't phrase it clearly. Since they have joint accounts, I'm not sure how you separate their funds. From people I've spoken with, he would have to be declared incompetent, have someone take guardianship over him or my mom would have to legally separate from him. Expecting calls back from several attorneys on Monday. Thanks again for trying to help, really appreciate it!
Ask dad why a celebrity needs his money. Look up celebrity's home and show it to him.
Is dad mailing the money or transferring it electronically?
If mailing, look up the address he is sending to and ask him why the celebrity would have mail sent to that address. (In my father's case, a FedEx employee showed him the address -- an abandoned trailer in a run-down trailer park -- and that was what got him to start thinking that maybe things weren't so up and up.)
If transferring electronically, google "fraud EFTs" (too much info for me to put here).
Check out https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/features/scam-alerts.
We think he is buying gift cards because there are large charges at stores like CVS and Walgreens. We think he's scratching off the cards and giving the numbers to someone, either through email or Hangouts. He's not transferring electronically. The scammer is too smart for that.
Your father’s current path is going to drain every penny for your mother’s future, while you slowly try to get a doctor to finish testing him for dementia, etc… and look for gentle solutions which won’t upset him too much. At this point, who cares if it’s dementia, or pure evil intent? Who cares if he is upset?
You said “…it will be tricky if my father fails to cooperate.” You also wrote “…he is willing to abandon his family for his scammer.” What more do you need to know? Your mother’s future is going to be hellish if he first drains her funds and then leaves her, so your options are to either let her be entirely destroyed, or you get her disconnected from him proactively starting today. There is no alternative.
Get a hard hitting lawyer today to assist in splitting the assets, and discuss divorce. Your father is no longer the father you knew, and the husband your mother chose, so you are trying to save something no longer there. Do not let your mother go down. Unless this is straightened out quickly, a divorce might be the only thing to save your mother’s future. You may have to let your dad sink his own ship.
Yes, of course do continue with alerting all authorities such as IC3.gov, your parents’ known banks fraud division, local police, FBI and all others your new lawyer will recommend.
Additionally, ask the new lawyer if it would be wise for him/her to draft and send a letterhead letter to the celebrity’s professional manager and professional agent, both. Virtually all genuine celebrities have both a manager and an agent. The lawyer must alert them that someone is using the celebrity’s good name to con money from one innocent old man, and most likely from other gullible eldsters, too. The celebrity’s own people might be able to take back-end action to nail the fraudster in order to save the celebrity’s reputation even if the FBI, police, bankers etc don’t act for you.
I hope I don’t sound too harsh, but I think you need the biggest wake up call of your life, and I am trying to be the alarm bell for you. Do not drag your feet, this is beyond serious, I am sick at heart for the dangerous situation your mother is in, and I feel dreadful for you, too. After the money is safely split, then and only then can you feel sorry for your father. Until then you need to consider him and his scammer “friend” the enemy.
If your father gives the scammer all his and your mother’s money, they will likely have to ultimately become wards of the state. It is better that only your father walk that path, if the experts aren’t able to stop the fraudster from draining everything. So split out your mother’s life monetarily and matrimonially from your father’s ill-advised friendship and money-draining operation starting today.
Good luck.
They live out of state, so I'm going there this week to start handling things in person and support my mother through the process as she may have to watch her husband, a proud man with a long history of hard work and dedication to his family, get stripped of his dignity. And I'm in full agreement with you that this is about protecting my mother's financial future and her current emotional well-being. I can't afford to feel sorry for him, just have to do what's right.
The only way to have him completely restricted from any financial transactions is to have doctor pronounce him incapable. If he refuses to go to the doctor, as is his current right, it is very complicated and time-consuming to legally prevent him from transacting. We will of course do it, but it could take months and be very stressful for my mother, who is having surgery this week (great timing, right?), so we are trying to shut down as much access as we can right now, limit him to just the two new credit cards he opened and then focus on convincing him to go to the doctor. Otherwise, sadly, we will have to do it against his will. I hope to have a promising update next week.
Thanks again for being so straightforward and offering options. Appreciate it.
You won't be able to change the title if they jointly own their home, but he should not be able to mortage it without her signature. He might be able to get a HELOC (home equity line of credit) but that at least limits the damage he can do, and he would have to be able to get himself to the bank and complete the paperwork.
See if you can hide his driver's license, passport, or any other legal ID. Without them he can't get any more credit and he might not be able to go through the process to recover them.
Is Mom on board with you protecting her? Or is she an enabler? Will she give him back everything if confronted? Can she pay bills, etc. or does someone else need to be responsible? Is she committed to the marriage or does she want out?
This is really messy, but necessary. I wish you luck.
I don't think she will give everything back if confronted, but it will be very hard on her if she is seen as the one masterminding this plot against him, which we fear is how my dad is viewing it. He's been turned against her by his scammer, he clearly has an emotional connection to this person pretending to a be a celebrity he is enamored with. So we are enlisting help from financial advisor, attorney, etc. so that it's not all on her.
We realize that if he doesn't come to his senses and eventually see the truth for what it is, that the marriage may be over. I think mom understands that. It's obviously soul-crushing, but she'd rather end the marriage than watch him blow their life savings and live in a fantasy world.
Also, make copies of any statements to show proof of what he's been doing. Good luck and get this done TODAY! He'll moan groan whine and commonality that she's also taking his half, but he's been giving her half away. He also needs to be checked for dementia. It only takes a visit or 2 with a geriatric nurse practitioner. It's most important to get your mom out of that situation. Good luck!
So very sorry this is happening to your family, prayers for strength
Contact APS as they may have contacts they can direct you to, help you get to the person who can help you at the local police station, the county district attorney/fraud investigators, and state police fraud unit. He is being defrauded, and needs legal help and protection for his share of their assets. Your mom needs help to get their assets split and her portion secured (out of reach by him, so he cannot give her resources to scammer.)
The reality that this is a significant change from his baseline personality and money management behavior is a sign of inability to understand the consequences of his actions.
Scammers provide affection, TLC, and try hard to turn their victim away from family - raising suspicions that family members are trying to get his money from him, that they are jealous of his pretty lady, etc.
Keep track of your calls, who you speak to, what actions you take, etc.
Once the money is gone, it is very very. hard to get it back. Focus on stopping the scam.
A court can appoint a conservator for him - to manage his resources (money, valuable property, etc. Can't place him in a care home, etc. And not for medical care. )
Do what you can.
This happened to my father. He got scammed by a much younger woman who was an alcoholic prostitute. He would not hear a word against her, so we had no choice but to just let him crash and burn which is exactly what happened.
She went through everything he had then when his time of need came his affairs were a total mess.
All you can do is what you can. If your father wants to get scammed, so be it. Make sure he knows that you will not help him after this scammer takes it all.
2. If you have no legal way to intervene and raising Cain is not working: Consider the long run. Treat your parent with respect and love. When your parent dies you’ll have good memories and know you’ve done the best you could.
My grandmother married a scoundrel (gambler, womanizer, spendthrift). She had two daughters - my mother and her sister, my aunt. My mother continued her relationship with her mother as if nothing happened. My aunt raised useless and hurtful hell. My mother taught me and my 3 siblings a great lesson. Once her mother was gone, there was time to lash out at the scoundrel and stop contact. But while she was alive, my mother and all of her children were free to maintain regular and loving contact with our grandmother. To do otherwise causes grandmother great emotional harm. If the attempts to intervene were about money, and those would have failed, what great harm to sweet grandmother.