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Cash was withdrawn from a relative's account to take her balance below the VA Aid and Assistance thresholds. However, now some of her assets will not sell for what we thought so the cash needs to be returned so there is not a problem with Medicaid later. What is the best way to do this? Deposit cash, get a cashier's check, put it in a checking account and write a check. We want to make sure if Medicaid looks at it, they will credit it correctly. I should add that there are other family member that owe money that have no intention of repaying and we don't want them to be able to claim these deposits are from them.

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We are going to start the process of applying for medicaid for Mom she has no assets, no house, pension etc, life ins. already cashed in to pay for her care. We recently had her placed at an assisted living center and she was only there 4 days and ended up back in hospital, we are receiving a refund check , for we had to pay a month in advance. So, when we get the check do we deposit it into a savings acct. or put it directly in to her checking??
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In both of your cases, you are both trying to do the right thing. Not knowing whether either of you have attorney's for you parents, 1) if you do, ask the attorney first, 2) if not, it's best to check the Social Security office nearest you.
Best of luck!
Hugs!
Suzanne
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It's my understanding, for Medi-cal at least, that the Medi-cal recipient cannot have more that $2,000. You don't say how large an amount needs to be returned. Would it be possible to use it for paying mom's share of cost over a period of time, or to purchase something for mom such as new bedroom furniture? It has been my experience that the case workers at the Medicare office are knowledgeable and helpful. Probably best to explore options with them. Isn't borrowing money from an elder with no intent to repay a form of elder abuse? I think it is important to distinguish between a gift and a loan. A loan with payments due is an asset for your mom. Good luck to you and God bless you for being there to help your mom.
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The account was over $100k. VA Aid and Assistance will kick in if the account is under $80k and they allow transfers. The plan was to withdraw the funds, low enough to qualify for VA and spend any withdrawals on care. However, we now know that not everyone involved is trustworthy to spend the any funds withdrawn on the relative's care. There were some funds withdraw for personal use that I would classify as theft. So, we need to return all funds to keep it safe and spend it on care, so we can qualify for Medicaid when and if we run out of cash and assets..I just want to make sure I have proper receipts showing the return. Thank goodness, the improper withdrawals were caught early. We won't be able to qualify for VA as early, but otherwise, we may NEVER qualify for medicaid if this misuse were to continue. There will have to be a lawyer involved, but I'm trying to delay and give them a chance to do the right thing. In the meantime, the rest of the money is safe.
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This being the case, I would definitely hire a "real" (check out all of their credentials, special needs/elder care lawyer. It would be to your advantage to place the monies into a special needs trust. This trust is used for her "wants" only; not her care. Be certain to have two trustees. Multiple reasons why, but the primary is TRUST. Both must agree to withdraw money for her wants and if one person should pass away, the other would still be there to line up someone else to assist.
Best bet; hire the lawyer with some of this money and let them assist you best.
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Re; Aid & Attendance & asset thresholds

The asset/income thresholds are determined on a case by case basis, 80K is NOT a good measure.unless someone is only 65 years old

Any money 'transferred' MUST be safeguarded, & not subject to loss, or risk. Due to Medicaid look back those funds must be availabe to 'neutralize' any penalty period. Monies "preserved" (even if the look back is past) should be used to provide additional care in the nursing home. such as private room, extra care provider etc.
No money should be distibuted to any one not trustworthy, nor to grandchildren, for example
soley for the purpose of showing less assets.
The monthly cost today for assited living may be one figure, yet due to aging/health; the care costs can increase rapidly. If a Nursing Home is required in the future, ALL money in the look back period musy be accounted for.
Those who spend it are thieves.

There are ways to accomplish this
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Before you do the medicaid application, see an aging and disability agent. They are very very helpful in assessing fund situations. Look back period is 5yrs and monies spent or taken will be accounted for, whether used for care or otherwise. Also there are spending options medicaid won't tell you about, such as, buying a non revocable burial trust (this can include a monument) and also a minimal amount of life insurance. Keep this in mind when you are planning the spend down balance. I just completed 3 medicaid application since april 2012 and it finalized sept 1. When you get your spend down balance amount, take to the aging and disability office for revue as well. Medicaid is not alway correct w/their figure, as we received a $6900 refund, for over spending. Fortunately this was available through a deposit at the nursing home. Lucky us, or we would have been sol.
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I don't know whether this helps with your particular situation, but here is what I am going through with my dad, who is 94 and is now in the second phase of Medicare re-hab, prior to going into self-pay nursing home care: Over 5 years ago, dad set up an irrevocable trust for X dollars, so according to his attorney, that money cannot be touched by Medicaid. The interest and dividends from the irrevocable trust go into a revocable trust, which dad used for expenses and gifts to children and grandchildren. The money in the revocable trust can be "confiscated" by Medicaid for nursing home care. In addition, he has savings of about 50k that will also have to be used for nursing home care until he reaches the allowable limit to apply for Medicaid. As his son/power of attorney/executed, I also set up an irrevocable burial fund out of his savings, which I was told by my attorney is exempt from Medicaid. There are funds, or transfers, or gifts (whatever Medicaid chooses to call them) over the past five years that Medicaid will count against him in the look-back period that will make him in eligible for the period of time calculated by dividing the amount transferred by the monthly cost of the nursing home. If the transfers equal 40k and the monthly cost of nursing home care is 10k, he would be I eligible for Medicaid four four months, unless the money is paid back, which is impossible at this point. The nursing home would then only get his pension, social security, dividends and interest during those months and would have to take a loss on the remainder. After the ineligibility period is up, He would go on full Medicaid. My question is, at $320 per day, isn't the look-back "loss" assumed by the nursing home already built into the cost of nursing home care. What father wouldn't give money to his children or grandchildren in need? I intend to bring this up as I defend his expenditures with the Medicaid people, but I don't know what the result will be. I can't imagine my father being tossed into the street for four months while he waits out the ineligibility period. I also learned that he can also pay for burial fund account for his children and their spouses (New York) that are exempted from Medicaid and he can buy a new car, as well. Wish me luck, as he only has enough funds for about five or six months before I have to deal with Medicaid.
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If there is no record of this money. Do not put it back in. If there is a record and the money has not been used for qualifying items, such as burial, insurance, rent/mortgage, medical or even your own personal care fees(if you've kept record), then it will be accountable with medicaid. Otherwise like some else said, open a joint account so it is accessible, if & when it is needed. Consult aging and disability ctr.
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Marksalomon: I did ask any attorney the question about what happens to people that are not eligible because of illegal transfers (medicaid's opinion). He said they do indeed end up on the street. That parents can't give money to their children then ask the government to make up the difference. And that soon the look back period will probably change from five years to seven.
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My dad is in a NH approaching his Medicare 100 days. He had a stroke but hope he will eventually get to go home but it may be months. I am working on his Medicaid application now. My dad has a life insurance that has a cash value of 3500.00 - dad has changed policy that I am the absolute assignee on the policy. Do I have to list the insurance policy on dads application if I own it?
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cocaine = 10 dollar bills = small deposits ..
its laborious as h*ll having to do everybodys thinkin for them but i consider it a service to mankind ..
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Rhonda yes you report it,it was a gift to you.
Mark, one of two things happen 1. Dad gets kicked out, or 2. The Nursing Home sues and wins. Especially in PA. See HCR vs Pittas.
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