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I’m curious about the communication side of this because it sounds like everyone is already stretched thin. What are you using now to keep track of who is handling what for your dad — appointments, errands, home issues, follow-ups, etc.? Is the biggest problem that the text thread gets too long, or that it becomes hard to tell what still needs to be done, who has taken it, and what has already been handled? I’d also be curious what you’ve tried besides texting, if anything, and why it didn’t work.
I get the impression you are the one who does not live near by. That your siblings are doing all the work. That maybe you expect them to tell you what is going on with Dad daily or regularly? Do you have a tendancy to tell them how you think things should be going?
Your POA is financial. You need to be giving siblings enough to care for Dad. They should not be paying out of pocket if money is there. Are they all in agreement that he should be cared for at home? Or do some want him placed?
What do you want from them that you need to have meetings? If they are caring for Dad and have homes and jobs of their own, they don't have time for meetings. Let the the siblings who are caring for Dad care for him their way. Seems at their end things are working OK. Don't expect calls all the time keeping you up to date. Daily caregiving is pretty much the same old same old. The only time you need to be contacted if there is a change like a hospital stay. If you want, just call day a certain time every day but leave your siblings to care for him the way they have it worked out. Maybe make it home every so often to give them a break.
Is communication the real issue, or is it more about unwillingness - to collaborate, cooperate, change course, or deal with whatever else comes up in concert with other family members.
As suggested by Geaton777, have your Dad obtain a Zoom license and get him to cover its costs. Then plan a meeting most convenient for everyone. Your father can be taught that Zoom is a great way to go to meet up.
There is an On line Platform called Caring Bridge, You can set up a profile and family and friends can communicate through that platform. https://www.caringbridge.org
I love CaringBridge but it's basically no different that us communicating here on this forum. Zoom would be the best option. Not everyone has experience typing fast like me so they'd hate all the typing. Someone mentioned FaceTime but I don't think you can have more than 2 person at a time.
You could consider finding a senior consultant or counselor or someone to help manage the situation. There are also some trained geriatricians and financial managers and doctors that can answer some questions or help with some basics.
This would work but "someone" would need to know how to do a conference-style call. Zoom is great because the entire session can be easily recorded, and people can screen share and upload documents to view.
Hire a private home caregiver (not agency) but a private, referred, experienced home caregiver who has been down this same road with multiple other families for years, to do overnight shifts with your father. 6-6, 7-7 , 8-8? Pay caregiver with your father’s money. You don’t ask, you inform father and if the caregiver has the proper experience, they will facilitate this arrangement. Stay away to let it work. Caregiver becomes dad’s new trusted companion, confidant , assistant, and friend. Overnight caregiver helps dad with supper, washes the supper dishes, preps breakfast, helps him shower and into night clothes, tooth care and face washing, bed turndown and changing sheets and doing laundry overnight, watches some tv and evening news, and directs dad to bed at or before 10 pm and supervises his evening medication taking. Perhaps takes him for a short walk down the driveway, get in the mail from mailbox, or down the street at 6 pm or so. They don’t just sit there and wait for your dad to direct them. They take charge of the evening routine and get it accomplished and report back to the siblings that he ate dinner, medication taken, dishes washed, kitchen cleaned, showered and in bed clothes, teeth cleaned, watching tv and news. Tv off at 9 pm. In bed. Laundry load in progress and trash taken out or breakfast dishes set out, fridge organized. There is lots of things overnight caregiver can do to make you and your siblings lives easier. This will buy you some time until or if you have to move him out of his home. Caregiver sleeps when dad sleeps overnight but helps him to bathroom overnight and gets him up and clean and dressed, help him make the bed, tidy the bathroom, make his breakfast and get him settled eating breakfast and with tv or newspaper before they leave. That is a lot of caregiving off of your plate for a while. You or sib check in at 10a or noon or 2-3 pm. Overnight caregiver can also prep and leave a sandwich and chips and a drink and some cookies for dad on the kitchen table for dad so all he has to do is eat it. You still have to handle groceries shopping and yard care and housekeeping and medical appointments and putting pills in the box and pet care and vet visits and haircuts and podiatrist for nails care and trimming finger nails and paying the bills and socializing and emergencies. It’s not easy, even with really great helpers.
That's a great answer, Beethoven. Very detailed. Yes, a Good caregiver can be invaluable! I've seen some lazy and useless ones, but right now the agency I've been working with finally found me someone who is great! A strong young man, with a lot of patience, and a great attitude. When there is down time, he looks for some cleaning or organizing project to work on. He totally removed all the crystal glassware and special serving dishes from my antique sideboard cabinet hutch, washed everything, cleaned the hutch, then replaced everything. Another time, I caught him detailing my stove and oven! It's never sparkled like this! And, best of all, my husband responds well to him! My husband is a very difficult patient and it takes a special kind of person with strength and patience to handle him.
As POA, go ahead and hire in-home help. I kind of liked Rosered's suggestion; if you give up your caregiving duties, your siblings may be ready to have those meetings to discuss his care. INSIST everyone get together whether by phone, zoom meeting, or in-person, no excuses, so you can all get on the same page regarding your father's care.
Even then, everyone will not be in agreement, and the Medical POA will need to make the decisions.
If all of you siblings agree that you want to take care of him, and you are lacking communication, you could leave a journal, or a notepad at Dad's house where everyone notes the date and time they were there and make any notes of what happened during their visit, any changes in dad's condition. It will be there for everyone to read and be kept up to date. Basically, you're just replacing the text threads with handwritten notes on location, which may be useful later on for answering doctors questions or for paramedics if they should need to come to the house.
As I read all of this, I see that dad has saddled you all up and is going to ride hard until he dies. He clearly has no idea what he has put upon all of you. Does anyone ever defy this ogre? Ever told him what he's done to you? Ever thrown up your hands and said, "WE NEED OUTSIDE HELP AND WE ARE NOT DOING THIS ANYMORE."
I took care of both parents sequentially. Dad got sick and died of cancer w/dementia, mom got sick and went on for 5 more years, finally dying of complications from the worst case of dementia you'e ever seen. They'd both insisted on being cared for and dying at home. We had wonderful private caregivers, but my parents would have been so much happier and more comfortable in a memory care facility like the one where my husband is now. He is lovingly cared for there by wonderful professionals who will be with us until the end.
I can see that placement is not likely to happen for your dad. I'm sad and sorry about that for him as well as his children. You all deserve so much better.
Well, on one hand I think it's wonderful that the siblings seem to work together fairly well. On the other hand if dad has designated Powers of Attorney this isn't a democracy and it's up to the POA to make the final call on decisions.
"Dad does have medical POA. He orders meds organizes pill organizer? goes to all appts keeps notebook of appts, doc phone calls etc." Is there a financial, aka durable, POA? This would be the person who decides what is appropriate to do with dad's money, everything from hiring a house cleaner to placing him in a care facility if needed. And what the POA decides, whether the sibs agree or not, goes. That's why you choose your POA carefully, which hopefully your dad did.
"All but me seem to agree that we should honor Dad's wishes that only us 4 take care of him and house etc. No home health care aide, no pd. help w yard or fixing things around the house." You're right an your siblings are wrong. You're grown men and women presumably in your 60s and 70s letting dad tell you what to do. Respect is a lovely thing but if he can't do something, and he wants it done, who is he to tell you not to hire it out? That's either selfish or shows he's not using the good judgement he had when he was younger.
"My issue is talking about current and future care, talking w Dad re possibly selling some vacant property now rather than group decision in future. Dad is 94 with heart and mobility issues. " This makes it sound like nobody has durable POA, if you're counting on dad to come to an agreement on selling property, etc. Can you siblings work together so that dad fills out POA paperwork for someone?
You are POA? How far away do you live from Dad and how old is he? Because, if you live far away and there are siblings closer, maybe you should not be POA. Someone nearer to him should be.
I don't do Zoom and my husband has no interest in computers. Maybe your siblings feel you are asking too much of them. Your not there they are and should be able to care for Dad the way they need to without you asking for daily recaps.
POA is mostly financial. Thats all you need to worry about. If you can't get Dad to zoom then maybe you are just going to need to visit and find out what he wants going forward. If Dad becomes incompetent to make informed decisions, then you make the decisions based on the wording of POA. You are Dads representative. You don't need siblings permission. You decisions are based on what Dad wants. I could sell my Moms house, which I did. Do you hold Medical POA/proxy? If you do and Dad is capable of reassigning, it would be easier if one of the siblings has it since they are caring for Dad. Medical has no power other than to carry out Dads wishes concerning his Medical and EOL decisions. To be able to talk to Doctors and health staff.
Since the family members are orbiting around Dad, and are feeling "stretched" and wanting you individually to "do more", I want to point out that caregiving happens on the caregivers' terms or burnout is imminent. This means what Dad wants may not be possible and he needs to be told this. I doubt your Dad orbited around his parents like this and maybe this is why he isn't seeing the impact of his current care arrangment. You already see the current situation is unsustainable.
Since Dad has both a medical and financial PoA, I would stop trying to have any other family members involved in decision-making unless it involves them providing hands-on care themselves. The more people on the "committee" the less efficient the committee is.
If your Dad has the savings and funds to pay for a companion aid, cleaning, maintenance, upkeep, repairs, yardwork for his house, this should all be contracted out. The romanticized notion of an incapable elder "aging in place" in their home comes at the cost of the rest of the family who have their own lives and homes and pressures and this is where fights and resentments and burnout intersect. You already see it is unsustainable. You don't have to go along with it, nor should you.
No one can assume a family member into caregiving. Whoever doesn't want to participate is not obligated to do so and shouldn't be made to feel bad for it. The PoAs need to figure out what they are comfortable doing and the rest needs to be paid for. If your Dad has assets and properties that can be sold to fund his in-home care, this needs to be done (and hopefully your PoA gives you that authority). If your PoA authority is currently active, then you can make this decision yourself without your Dad's buy-in.
In no way should you be on a shift to stay overnight for who knows how long. Hire an overnight aid for your shift with his money. This is only fair and reasonable. You don't have to get anyone else's approval to do this. They won't like it but too bad. Keep firm boundaries and don't be pressured by family dynamics, even from your Dad. He is not being reasonable or empathetic to his children. He's like a toddler king and no one needs to go along with his edicts.
Be calm and confident in your decision as PoA to change the care arrangement so that at least you don't burn out.
You could come to an agreement with your siblings that one of you will make minor non-controversial decisions and keep the others informed. You might split the decisions needed between topics - eg home, garden etc. For major decisions, one of you will investigate and inform all of you about the options. Then you all get to chip in, discuss and eventually decide.
An alternative approach would be to get Dad to choose which one, and provide them with a POA.
Thank you. Dad does have medical POA. He orders meds organizes pill organizer? goes to all appts keeps notebook of appts, doc phone calls etc. He does make himself available from home as needed. .But things can happen..any day. Having a single person in charge of an area works well with financial management since just the POA person- me - handles that. No reports or help w decisions are needed on those topics. Of course also no emergencies or urgency to involve others there. Dad wants it that way, though I keep files of course and notebook of all accounts #s; inurance, where things are- checkbook etc that people know about. My issue is talking about current and future care, talking w Dad re possibly selling some vacant property now rather than group decision in future. Dad is 94 with heart and mobility issues. All but me seem to agree that we should honor Dad's wishes that only us 4 take care of him and house etc. No home health care aide, no pd. help w yard or fixing things around the house. He can't be hone alone overnight so we keep a schedule on paper calendar at his house Current plans are unsustainable. One sun will overwork herself when someone is on vacation , is I'll or hasvother redp9bdibilitues. I've stated clearly that this is how many days per month I can do. I get questioned-. Why cant you? Others do more. I stand up for myself. I also suggest we discuss the plan together. I have info on rhe 2 home care agencies we previously used with Mom. That experience had been a nightmare also.
Smoke signals? I have not tried doing zoom calls yet. Libraries might have classes on tech stuff, or senior centers.. call your local library.. they may have free courses.
Technology is there to help all of you as well as your dad, and since there's no other way to communicate that you all agree upon, learn to use it. If you don't, you are all going to be greatly handicapped as you try to do one of the hardest jobs on earth without the proper tools.
Who are the holdouts? Inform them that there will be a Zoom meeting on such-and-such a date, and that if they choose not to attend, the rest of you will proceed without them.
It would be helpful to know more about the situation. Is there a POA? What's dad's role at present? What's his age? What are the siblings' ages? Exactly what is it you are all doing for dad? Please let us know more.
Pay for a Zoom subscription (for longer sessions) and have Dad cover that expense as part of the cost of his care. Zoom calls can also be recorded, which I recommend for family meetings when decisions are being made.
I'm a caregiver who suggested zoom meetings. Another offered to set them up. Meetings were originally agreed upon but cancelked for various reasons. Rest decided not to go on w/o tge missing person/s.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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What are you using now to keep track of who is handling what for your dad — appointments, errands, home issues, follow-ups, etc.?
Is the biggest problem that the text thread gets too long, or that it becomes hard to tell what still needs to be done, who has taken it, and what has already been handled?
I’d also be curious what you’ve tried besides texting, if anything, and why it didn’t work.
Your POA is financial. You need to be giving siblings enough to care for Dad. They should not be paying out of pocket if money is there. Are they all in agreement that he should be cared for at home? Or do some want him placed?
What do you want from them that you need to have meetings? If they are caring for Dad and have homes and jobs of their own, they don't have time for meetings.
Let the the siblings who are caring for Dad care for him their way. Seems at their end things are working OK. Don't expect calls all the time keeping you up to date. Daily caregiving is pretty much the same old same old. The only time you need to be contacted if there is a change like a hospital stay. If you want, just call day a certain time every day but leave your siblings to care for him the way they have it worked out. Maybe make it home every so often to give them a break.
Caring Bridge,
You can set up a profile and family and friends can communicate through that platform.
https://www.caringbridge.org
It is a charitable 501 non-profit organization.
Yes, a Good caregiver can be invaluable!
I've seen some lazy and useless ones, but right now the agency I've been working with finally found me someone who is great! A strong young man, with a lot of patience, and a great attitude. When there is down time, he looks for some cleaning or organizing project to work on. He totally removed all the crystal glassware and special serving dishes from my antique sideboard cabinet hutch, washed everything, cleaned the hutch, then replaced everything. Another time, I caught him detailing my stove and oven! It's never sparkled like this! And, best of all, my husband responds well to him! My husband is a very difficult patient and it takes a special kind of person with strength and patience to handle him.
INSIST everyone get together whether by phone, zoom meeting, or in-person, no excuses, so you can all get on the same page regarding your father's care.
Even then, everyone will not be in agreement, and the Medical POA will need to make the decisions.
If all of you siblings agree that you want to take care of him, and you are lacking communication, you could leave a journal, or a notepad at Dad's house where everyone notes the date and time they were there and make any notes of what happened during their visit, any changes in dad's condition. It will be there for everyone to read and be kept up to date. Basically, you're just replacing the text threads with handwritten notes on location, which may be useful later on for answering doctors questions or for paramedics if they should need to come to the house.
I took care of both parents sequentially. Dad got sick and died of cancer w/dementia, mom got sick and went on for 5 more years, finally dying of complications from the worst case of dementia you'e ever seen. They'd both insisted on being cared for and dying at home. We had wonderful private caregivers, but my parents would have been so much happier and more comfortable in a memory care facility like the one where my husband is now. He is lovingly cared for there by wonderful professionals who will be with us until the end.
I can see that placement is not likely to happen for your dad. I'm sad and sorry about that for him as well as his children. You all deserve so much better.
"Dad does have medical POA. He orders meds organizes pill organizer? goes to all appts keeps notebook of appts, doc phone calls etc."
Is there a financial, aka durable, POA? This would be the person who decides what is appropriate to do with dad's money, everything from hiring a house cleaner to placing him in a care facility if needed. And what the POA decides, whether the sibs agree or not, goes. That's why you choose your POA carefully, which hopefully your dad did.
"All but me seem to agree that we should honor Dad's wishes that only us 4 take care of him and house etc. No home health care aide, no pd. help w yard or fixing things around the house."
You're right an your siblings are wrong. You're grown men and women presumably in your 60s and 70s letting dad tell you what to do. Respect is a lovely thing but if he can't do something, and he wants it done, who is he to tell you not to hire it out? That's either selfish or shows he's not using the good judgement he had when he was younger.
"My issue is talking about current and future care, talking w Dad re possibly selling some vacant property now rather than group decision in future. Dad is 94 with heart and mobility issues. "
This makes it sound like nobody has durable POA, if you're counting on dad to come to an agreement on selling property, etc. Can you siblings work together so that dad fills out POA paperwork for someone?
I don't do Zoom and my husband has no interest in computers. Maybe your siblings feel you are asking too much of them. Your not there they are and should be able to care for Dad the way they need to without you asking for daily recaps.
POA is mostly financial. Thats all you need to worry about. If you can't get Dad to zoom then maybe you are just going to need to visit and find out what he wants going forward. If Dad becomes incompetent to make informed decisions, then you make the decisions based on the wording of POA. You are Dads representative. You don't need siblings permission. You decisions are based on what Dad wants. I could sell my Moms house, which I did. Do you hold Medical POA/proxy? If you do and Dad is capable of reassigning, it would be easier if one of the siblings has it since they are caring for Dad. Medical has no power other than to carry out Dads wishes concerning his Medical and EOL decisions. To be able to talk to Doctors and health staff.
Since Dad has both a medical and financial PoA, I would stop trying to have any other family members involved in decision-making unless it involves them providing hands-on care themselves. The more people on the "committee" the less efficient the committee is.
If your Dad has the savings and funds to pay for a companion aid, cleaning, maintenance, upkeep, repairs, yardwork for his house, this should all be contracted out. The romanticized notion of an incapable elder "aging in place" in their home comes at the cost of the rest of the family who have their own lives and homes and pressures and this is where fights and resentments and burnout intersect. You already see it is unsustainable. You don't have to go along with it, nor should you.
No one can assume a family member into caregiving. Whoever doesn't want to participate is not obligated to do so and shouldn't be made to feel bad for it. The PoAs need to figure out what they are comfortable doing and the rest needs to be paid for. If your Dad has assets and properties that can be sold to fund his in-home care, this needs to be done (and hopefully your PoA gives you that authority). If your PoA authority is currently active, then you can make this decision yourself without your Dad's buy-in.
In no way should you be on a shift to stay overnight for who knows how long. Hire an overnight aid for your shift with his money. This is only fair and reasonable. You don't have to get anyone else's approval to do this. They won't like it but too bad. Keep firm boundaries and don't be pressured by family dynamics, even from your Dad. He is not being reasonable or empathetic to his children. He's like a toddler king and no one needs to go along with his edicts.
Be calm and confident in your decision as PoA to change the care arrangement so that at least you don't burn out.
An alternative approach would be to get Dad to choose which one, and provide them with a POA.
..
I have not tried doing zoom calls yet.
Libraries might have classes on tech stuff, or senior centers..
call your local library.. they may have free courses.
Who are the holdouts? Inform them that there will be a Zoom meeting on such-and-such a date, and that if they choose not to attend, the rest of you will proceed without them.
It would be helpful to know more about the situation. Is there a POA? What's dad's role at present? What's his age? What are the siblings' ages? Exactly what is it you are all doing for dad? Please let us know more.