Can I just tell social services I cannot care for my elderly mum as she is too controlling, abusive, manipulative and making me ill?

Is she controlling and abusive due to Alzheimers/ Dementia? If you have that diagnosis from MD, she may qualify for AL or NH with memory care facility.

Absolutely you can get her out of the house, the sooner the better! You tried. This is not working out. Change it.

If Social Services has been involved, call your contact person. You don't have to give a reason or justify your decision. This is simply not working out and you will not be able to continue. She must be placed elsewhere as soon as possible.

If Social Services has not been involved, call and explain that Mom has been with you on a temporary basis and now you need help finding a more permanent solution. You'd like a needs assessment.

If your main contact for your mom has been a district nurse, call that person and ask for help in figuring out how to get mom placed elsewhere.

This won't happen overnight, but the sooner you start, the sooner it will be accomplished. Make the first calls today!

Why did your mother come to live with you, Ange? Was there some particular crisis in her health or wellbeing? How was she managing before?

My mum was living miles away in Suffolk on her own after my dad died 5 years ago. She had carers in 3 days a week to strip wash her in parts as she has ME and is too weak to do it in one go and a district nurse to tend to her legs. She went into hospital with severe anaemia for a few days and came straight to ours as it was obvious she could not take care of herself anymore; she is a hoarder and her house is a state as well.
S he owns her own property and I have not got power of attorney so would not be able to sell it to pay for her care. The district nurse has said she is non complient to their advice as she has bed sores and swollen , painful legs through just sitting in a chair all day & most of the night.
I must admit I had a rant about her behaviour and said I feel like putting a pillow on her head; I hope they don't think I would really do that!
I feel racked with guilt as I have failed in not caring for her the way she would like.

Relax, Ange. I think older people's services social workers worry more about carers who *don't* have the occasional rant.

So, six weeks in to her staying with you - are you still in touch with her discharge team from hospital? Have they handed over to your local social services? What's the set up? I'm in the UK so I'm familiar with the usual systems. Meanwhile be clear, though: you are not obliged to have your mother living in your house unless that is the solution you choose. It may take a bit of time and some fast talking, but if you want the situation changed you can change it.

No they wanted to discharge her quickly; 2 carers at the hospital made a complaint about her being aggressive towards them and they were glad to get her away. She is now with my doctor and social services in B'ham.
So do you think if I say on Wednesday when I have a meeting arranged about her care assessment as she has nearly finished 6 weeks of free care that I don not want to care for her any more they will listen?

No one can force you to take your mother in as a permanent resident. The six week cut-off point is quite handy, nice round number, even if you round it up to, say, two months. The thing is, while you can't be obliged to keep her and care for her, you'll need to be a bit nimble to escape the emotional blackmail and potential financial forces at work - especially as Suffolk, her former local authority, has managed so neatly to get rid of her.

Does your mother express an opinion about her own wishes? Is she mentally competent? If she can be nudged towards telling her key worker that she wants to live independently (which could mean in sheltered or retirement housing, e.g.) that will help enormously. It will save you having to cross your arms and say 'over my dead body is my mother moving in here permanently' - which may be reasonable and true, but is not something anyone would like to say in her hearing :)

What CM says is right Ange. Remember this - Under new laws you are legally entitled to a carers assessment. The Care Act 2014 Makes local authorities responsible for assessing a carer's need for support, where they seem to be needing support.

Now don't think that they will give support - you have to fight tooth and nail to get it and I know that first hand after actually telling the social worker to leave my house if she wasn't going to do her job. So it is now time to get a serious backbone for use on all fronts. For you are going to need it on all fronts.

You didn't realise she would make our lives a living h*ll.

Actually you probably didn't think she COULD either but they sure as hell can can't they?

If you are getting constant complaints from her about everything you do for her then I suspect this is nothing new to you but it is now on a higher plain than you have ever seen it before.

Terms of engagement - i.e. your house rules NOT HERS

Firstly remember you are in transition and I was bloody suicidal and I mean suicidal at this stage - I would gleefully have killed myself rather than deal with madam's bloody tantrums for that is what they are and if you don't stand up to them in an effective way then you are in for a very bumpy ride

Any food you cook is criticised and has to be made late in the evening when you want to finally sit down!

WELL TOUGH - Make her meal with yours and if she wants it later microwave it. If she complains tell her to buy it in there are plenty of deliver to the door food (meals on wheels type) that she can buy in AT HER COST. DO NOT BEND to her timing - they wouldn't in a care home. Stand firm on this one. And diary it

My husband and son cannot bear to go in the same room as her because of her behaviour. Then tell them this for they need to get a backbone too. Go in there, if she is rude tell her this I am leaving now because I will not tolerate you being so rude and then tell them to walk out immediately - don't engage in conversation - Oh and the same goes for you too

You need to see a doctor NOW re the stress - you don't have to take any meds he may prescribe but you need that visit in before you see social services.

Right now as to social services.
Call them and tell them you want a carer's assessment NOW - IMMEDIATELY.

Now they are going to try and fob you off with in a couple of weeks. NO - when they tried this one with me I said either you come out before the end of the week or on Friday at 4pm I will be delivering mother to you and leaving her there - your call.

When they try another tack repeat after me....you are not listening and not hearing me - I AM NOT COPING AND I WANT A CARER'S ASSESSMENT NOW.

If they try a third time then go this way - could I have your email address please? Get it first and then tell them you are informing verbally now but you will confirm in writing that the circumstances of care are malfunctioning, that you are not coping and that you are being denied your legal right to a carer's assessment when you have identified an immediacy to the Social worker.

It would only be one who wanted to lose their job and pension that wouldn't sit up and take notice

If that isn't successful and I would be surprised then call back and ask to speak to a senior manager - not any old manager but the senior manager and tell them you want an urgent appointment because your mother is at risk - say no more than that...then tell them that the trial period has shown that you cannot cope and therefore you decline to caregive to your mother. Then let them do what they get paid for!

PS stay strong and if possible have a friend who is a veritable Rottweiler with you. When they tried to talk over me (tactic to ride roughshod over everything you might say) my daughter was there and was really nasty. To quote - If you actually did your job and listened you would have a clue as to what the issues are but that would mean you would have to earn your pay wouldn't it - mind you she works for the police and was wearing uniform at the time so I imagine a little daunting for them!!!

Ange I am pm ing you a site

So sorry this is so very hard!

PD, I think Ange needs to establish that she is determined NOT to be her mother's carer - so although yes, she would be entitled to a carer's assessment, I feel in her case it's more important to get the message across that her mother is effectively homeless and decisions need to be made about where she is to live and how she is to be supported. It's going to be difficult to accomplish this without Ange's having to look pretty hard-nosed - but Ange, right is right, and there is no legal or moral authority that can oblige you to be your mother's primary carer without your explicit consent. Stick to your guns. You have good reasons - your family's quality of life, for one - and you should be able to win this argument. Recite it to yourself until it sounds normal: "my mother does not live here, this is not her home, she has been staying to recuperate from her hospital treatment and that's the end of my input."

Yup realised that CM and the link I sent Ange explains that. Nevertheless you and I both know what Social Services can be like. Because she accepted her at all they will have ticked the box and said to themselves done deal..... you have to fight tooth and nail for it not to be done deal and because there are two councils involved I envisage Suffolk and Brum fighting out who's going to take responsibility leaving poor Ange in the middle while they do so in the hope she will bow under the pressure. xxx

Incidentally the carers assessment MUST (according to the act but not necessarily in practice) follow these rules in the UK:

Local authorities now have a legal duty to assess any carer who requests one or who appears to need support.

If you are a carer and you need some support, get in touch with the council covering the area where the person you care for lives. The council will be able to give you information and advice about how the assessment will work.

A carer’s assessment is a discussion between you and a trained person either from the council or another organisation that the council works.

The assessment will consider the impact the care and support you provide is having on your own wellbeing, as well as important aspects of the rest of your life, including the things you want to achieve day-to-day. It must also consider other important issues, such as WHETHER YOU ARE ABLE OR WILLING TO carry on caring, whether you work or want to work, and whether you want to study or do more socially.

I think it may have been slightly irresponsible, or at best wishful thinking, that you would be able to manage her at home given her aggressive behavior and noncompliance. She needs what we would call a geropsychiatric assessment on this side of the big puddle, suspecting untreated mental illness, and I'm sure her degree of cognitive decline has been grossly underestimated too; besides that, the physical needs alone are high enough to qualify for long term care. You can say honestly that you cannot provide the level of care she needs, especially given that no one else in the household is willing t help you deal with her. I hope this works out the way we think it should - constant verbal abuse on top of overwhelming constant care demands on you is not something you should be asked to tolerate, period.

Thanks for all your help and kind concerns, it's good to know there are other people out there who understand this dire situation.
I've got a social care meeting arranged next week about her continual care and I'm going to tell them I can't cope anymore. I reckon you're right thy will definitely try to persuade me to except a lot more carers to come in and help but it isn't looking after her that's the problem it's her dominating personality & I will hopefully convince them I've come to the end of my tether. I've been told they probably will offer respite care for a week to cool off but to say I don't want her back. It's sooo awful to think it's got to this; I don't know if I can go through with it as she'll be put in a horrid emergency care facility where they won't give a dam about her & she'll be neglected if she behaves rudely to the carers.
She will hate me forever; she said she doesn't want to ever go into hospital again as it will "see me off" so a home would be devastating for her.

Ange they have already got you on the back foot. Stop right there and think of the other option - no family and you having responsibility for the sole care of Mum. Listen to me please GOOD CAREGIVERS KNOW WHEN TO STOP. Be a good caregiver and don't look at it the way you are. You cannot give your Mum the care SHE NEEDS.

You will resent her if she continues the way she is and your health will suffer.

If as a result of your stress levels you have a breakdown (or worse) she will have to go into care anyway BUT you will then not be in a position to support her

If she has cognitive decline she will forget she hates you

Is she someone who would understand if you did talk to her? I mean if you said Mum I am not going to tolerate your constant criticism and your rudeness - quit it or there will be no option for me but to stop caregiving to you because I am not going to risk losing my family because you are so horrid to me all the time...would she understand? would she change if she did understand?

If the answer there is no then you don't have an option.

She won't be NEGLECTED if she is rude to them but they will walk away from it - you cannot argue with someone who is hell bent on being vile. Plus it doesn't have to be a horrid care facility, you will still be able to have input as her daughter. presumably you will want her relatively close by. They will expect the house to be sold to pay for her care so you will have some horrible work to do there - a skip might be a good start!

As for care homes be prepared check on the CQC (Care Quality Commission) website for care homes near you and then have a look at the reports I will send you a link. xxx

Ange, the good bit about Birmingham is you've got some great organisations hanging out there: find your nearest MHA. Call them. Don't worry about the money - you don't have POA, it will be up to the care organisation to sort out what to do about funding and assets (which she does have, whether or not she wants to spend them).

Repeat: my mother does not live here. My mother does not live here.

Ange, one more thing I want to point out. You say you are sick at the thought that if she is forced into care your mother will hate you for it. But if you passively allow her to be moved in with you, before long you will hate her.

There are other good options for her continuing care plan. Make it crystal clear that your home becoming her permanent place of residence is not one of them.

Can really identify with this situation ! Although my mother is not living with us (she lives 4 miles away ) we have been having a terrible time with her neediness over the past 6 months.Much worse than previous few years.Just had 10 phone calls this morning regarding yet anither appliance. We had a stairlift fitted 2 weeks ago and arranged for carers to start last week. Has not helped much. If i wrote our book there would have to be at least 10 volumes in total LOL. LOL is not how we are feeling !!. Do not know where all this ends....

It helps to know that we are not alone !!

Bottom line: do not sacrifice yourself or your family to her disease. Take whatever steps you can to place her elsewhere. You tried. Bravo to you. Take your life and sanity back.

Dear Ange - I can relate to your situation! My family also does not want to even be in the same room as my dad and he is just as horrible as your mom. The food is to cold, now it is to hot, OK, now it is just the right temperature but there is not enough salt. Please do not put in more salt as the food is already very salty - no, we have to add more salt! Through it to the dogs, I can not eat it! Then the food is too fine (his food must be mashed as he can not chew at all) - the fine food causes him to be constipated. If you do not mash it properly through a blender - he pushed it away - I can not eat it, it is not fine enough. And I do not need somebody fiercely to help me - I can speak up for myself but I by now feel like a dog - we are constantly fighting about everything, life in my house has become a nightmare. I do not want to be in the same room as he as well. So we just do what we have to do and then escape to our own room or I will go sit in the garage with my husband - his escaping place! But, we have worked hard and paid for our house with our money, why must he now have the house and we are like some homeless kids that he is willing to share a house with?

Taking care of a parent is horrible! Maybe not for all - maybe there is people out there who have parents that are wonderful and whom they love to bits! But surely you and me are not one of those lucky ones! Hope all the advise helps you and will help to find more suitable care for your mother. Please do not feel guilty - from one person feeling so terrible guilty to another!

I don't know if this helps, but when you're undergoing the insane demands part of this experience: my favourite incident was a big family dinner, where my daughter was helping to wait at table and handed my SIL's MIL her plate. "No no, that's much too much meat, really I've no appetite, none at all, give me something much smaller please…"

Daughter duly trotted back to the kitchen with the plate, and returned with a down-sized helping. MIL rose to her feet, snorted "well, really! I've never been so insulted!" and swept from the room.

Just a plea to people to remember that these demands are *unreasonable.* They are *insanely* unreasonable, to the extent that they're almost a joke. It's bathos - eventually the stress must build up so much it'll collapse. Keep a grip on the real world, where what you do to help your elder is good and kind and fair - whatever they say about it.

Churchmouse, Yes, I agree, the demands are unreasonable, insanely unreasonable. And I am someone who would go out of my way to make it right for the ill person-or at least, I used to be!
Things are not that extreme in my home (yet?), and I have become overwhelmed many times with "finicky" and having to eat alone. Now, I fix his plate, fix my plate and leave him to his rituals related to food. As I read about your family event, and thinking of solutions for at home-can't they be given a meal-everyone leave-let them go hungry if they don't like it-sooner or later they may learn to just eat what was served? At least this worked for the children's eating in the movie 'Mommy Dearest', Lol, and our parents taught us at least how to eat what was served, not complain, eat everything on our plate, etc. Can't we somehow pay them back when they are acting like ungrateful children? I am just thinking out loud-ahead of time-if ever I am bedridden and don't have access to the salt and pepper.
There must be kinder techniques and procedures for caregivers to put into practice-maybe a jail cell door on the elder's bedroom-with an opening to slide the tray through, then run and hide? There has got to be a better way, as my heart goes out to the patients and especially the caregivers!

Please consider Phoenix Daughter's PS and find your veritable rotweiller to stand with you to encourage you to not back down. Your mother needs more help than one person or family can give. You cared. You gave it a try. It didn't work. You are a good daughter to care so much. Glad you reached out to aging care.com.

Gosh, Ange, you poor thing, and I thought I had it bad with my mother-in-law.

The situation is untenable and that's it. Time to find other accommodation for her and don't feel guilty about it. She has either brought this on herself, or, if her behaviour is the result of Alzheimers, the disease is to blame and not you. (It can sometimes be hard to distinguish which behaviour is personality and which is Alzheimers.)

Good luck.

Agh No! Not again! Our newcomers to this "care giving thinghy" are constantly surfing the web - What must I do? What are my rights? Is this normal? Which meds for this or that? What is fair or unfair? Burnout signs?

CM and Sendme2help - I am back to square one all over again!
/google/ Where to buy a very strong jail door that can be fitted in a private home ......

She's probably hurting and with severe anemia she probably got some brain damage. See if you can get her into a good adult psychiatric hospital for full evaluation and blood testing. My Mother is now on Exelon patch and low doses of Ativan, anti-depressant and anti-psychotic. She's a completely new person. Those are symptoms of pain, depression, possibly start of dementia from anemia. People with dementia express pain with acting out behaviors because they can't tell you the cause. Depending on the level of disease. Good luck. You just need to find the correct diagnosis.

wow...you are one of the healthy people! most people take care of abusive parents for years and lose everything incl their health and sanity! you...very wise, after only 6 weeks KNOW you have to get her OUT!! good for you ... do anything you can to get her OUT. don't let this meanspirited, demanding, abusive person ruin your health!!

dear ange373, don't feel bad! abusive and cruel elders need to go into senior care!!! don't ruin your life!