This driving nightmare won't end! HELP!
My mom is still in PA. In order to get around her FL driver's license being revoked she is demanding that I send her documents (birth certificate, SS card) immediately, before her FL license is revoked so she can get a PA license.
I talked to the FL medical review board of the DMV. As long as her DL is still valid (her 45 days is up on July 6th) if PA checks her FL license they won't know she has been reported for a medical review. Since she owns property in PA (her cottage) she plans to claim residency in PA, which is a lie. Her homestead is here in FL next to me. She is saying she is willing to change all that- like her cottage is going to be her new "homestead" so it will be "perfectly legal". She is not being rational at all.
I'm at my wits end. So far I have ignored her texts demanding I overnight her the documents, but she is blowing up my phone and getting angrier by the second.
I don't know what to do, or say, I'm SICK OF THIS!
24 Answers
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Can you attack the problem from another direction? If she can't get insurance or if the insurance she can get is too expensive, would she give it up? Insurance agents do not like to take chances with risky drivers. Giving her agent a call might do the trick. My mom had had 3 accidents in 3 years and her agent dropped her coverage.
The person acknowledged that my mom will likely be able to get a PA license, BUT as soon as her FL license is revoked, that info goes into a national database and her PA license will be automatically revoked as well. It would have been nice to get that info yesterday from the FL DMV, but that person wasn't as helpful and wanted off the phone ASAP. (see my prior comment above about DMV employees)
So I got that important info in the nick of time, before I said anything to my mother, before any confrontation or threats from me. So if what I was told is correct (and I have no reason to think it isn't) sometime in July she will get a letter at her PA address from the PA DMV telling her that her PA license is revoked.
Whew! This shit is so draining. I hope if anyone else finds themselves in a similar position they find this thread and can get some helpful info. Although my mom might be one of those rare breeds of dementia where her "charade" of independence is more like a steamroller charade of independence, I doubt many people with dementia facing the loss of their license think of going to another state and doing it illegally. My mom is still pretty crafty, in a dangerous kind of way.
Anyway, I called my brother and gave him the update. I'm not going to call my mom or bring this up to her again. I agree with others that it could escalate things, and possibly make things worse. I just did not know what to do. Now I know. Nothing.
Thank you again ladies. You all have felt like safety ropes to me when I feel like I'm standing on the edge of a cliff, and the kindness and honest answers are very much appreciated.
I agree with the others. Save yourself the frustration of trying to reason with Dementia. Work in the background and feed whatever info to PA DMV that will further your cause.
Let PA DMV be the bad guys if they do in fact yank her DL...if she is able to pull off getting one.
Awhile back when I first started posting about this whole driver's license nightmare, somebody posted to me that a demented woman killed a man she knew on a motorcycle because the family was too chicken shit to take her keys. That post has stayed with me since. We're doing the right things gkc even though it's hard, hugs to you.
Wouldn’t it be grand if she did make PA her home?!
And, remind me - which sibling is up there with her? You might like to flag that point to him too.
My blood was boiling all night long and I got like 3 hours sleep, but I did not respond.
The thing is, she now has the paperwork to pull this off, all she has to do is lie on the form in the medical section. I've read the PA DMV form, and the person is required to disclose certain medical conditions which she will have to lie about, and I guarantee that is fully what she intends to do. She will also have to lie about her true residency. NONE of this is rational.
I can't report her to the PA DMV until after she has a license, she is not yet in their system. Her FL license will not be revoked until around July 6th. Country, that is why "technically" she won't be lying on that part of the form, because when she does it, her FL DL will still be valid. FL DMV told me yesterday that the medical review part will not show if/when another state checks her license until it is actually revoked. My hands are completely tied until she actually obtains the fraudulent PA license.
I'm still trying to find my words but in a couple hours I plan to send her a text (so she can read it again in case she forgets) that if she goes through with this and obtains a PA license with her lies, that I myself will contact the PA DMV and tell them what has occurred.
She will hate me for sure. I resent so much that I am in this position, but I know in my heart that SOMEBODY has to stop her from driving. She is NOT safe for herself and others on the road. Nobody I know will even get in the car with her. So all her wrath will come on me, which is nothing new with this witch, I've always been her punching bag.
I never dreamed role reversal, or whatever it is, with my mother in her elder years would be so difficult. I feel like I'm trying to survive inside an insane asylum.
Any new person coming to this forum with a narcissistic and demented mother like mine-- if you were wise and moved far away in your earlier years, KEEP IT THAT WAY. My sister was the smart one she wasn't about to take this on and kept her distance. Oh, and as far as listening to my sister's advice that my mom "had a right to know"... never again. If you aren't in the trenches with me, then I will not be seeking your advice.
I can never express enough how thankful I am for this forum. I sincerely hope someday I can contribute to others instead of always being the needy one. Thank you.
WARNING: Misstatement of fact is a misdemeanor of the third degree punishable by a fine of up to $2,500 and or imprisonment up to 1 year (18 PA C.S. Section 4904 [b]).
I should draw this section to your mother's attention. She can try it if she likes, but too many people will know that she has lied.
After that, I came every week to take them grocery shopping and I drove them to any appointments, etc. Adult Protective Services was the key in getting them to stop. As a relative, you are probably allowed to alert the PA DMV to your concern and then mom has to do the full behind-the-wheel driving test. In Minnesota, they have to have a note from their doctor saying it was safe for the evaluator to ride with the person. The doctor knew it wasn't safe, so gave a wishy-washy answer saying he needed further evaluation. The testing station said they didn't do evaluation, but Courage Center does, so I arranged for that. It was a 3 hour process, including a long behind-the-wheel test. My friend could not pass that part, so the answer was no, he should not be tested or continue driving.
I hope the laws in PA are similar to MN on this issue. Good luck!
So, is it worth your mom to lose her cottage and everything else so she can drive?
Put your phone on silent and answer when you want to.
Since she likes to drive so much, tell her to drive down and get her papers personally. No, don't do that. Just thinking as I'm typing.
anyway, I pulled the keys, that was that, but then again, I lived 2 minutes away from her.
Explain the situation in full detail. I found them to be very helpful and appreciative of the effort to protect them and their loved ones.
If it is a form, download or have them send it to you, then you can get the same doctor to send it to PA. Do this to coincide with her receiving the documents requested from you. So they have the form when she walks in.
Of course that is based on what they tell you. It may just be a dream.
I would send the form regardless. Then they can start the proceedings to get her off the road. In the event she figures out how to get duplicates of the documents.
As hard as this is, you are doing the right thing for her. Next time sister doesn't deserve to know, she is in obvious denial about moms condition and causing you unneeded problems with her opinions.
Do not send the documents. Let her rage away in PA. Ignore her calls and texts. Easier if you block her number.
Send one letter stating that you will not be party to her driving period. Tell her you will call the police if she gets behind the wheel of a car.
Put the requested documents in a safe or safety deposit box that your sister can not access, and enjoy the peace of Mum spending the summer somewhere else.
Do you think it would help to contact both the FL and PA DMV and see if there is anything you can do to halt, stall, etc, the renewal of her
DL?
Another question. Say her liscense is not renewed, would she drive anyway?
When I was trying to ground my Mother an insurance agent friend told me under no circumstance should I write out the check to pay her auto insurance. I was on her checking account and her DPOA. There was a possible liability issue I would be opening myself up to knowing my Mom’s circumstance and not acting responsibly. That is the way it was explained to me at the time.
I don’t mean to stress you out more but might be something else you need to check in to if you are handling your Mom’s financial affairs.
I know DMV offices aren’t known for their customer service usually but it was my experience that explaining the Dementia factor most customer service depts were helpful and understanding...usually.
I'd just keep reading about how dementia causes people to act and how we can manage their behavior as best we can. By manage, I mean, keep them protected from themselves as well as the public protected from them. I'd keep reminding myself that even if the driving issue is resolved, it'll likely be something else next week, then the next. Often major meltdowns and blow ups are over nonexistent issues. It really doesn't settle down, until they lose the ability to speak and ambulate. At least, that's the case with many patients. Also, keep in mind that she may agree with you one minute, but, forget about that and revisit the issue the next day.
I'm so sorry, because, I know it's tough, but, I don't know of any way to cause your mother to be cooperative, considerate, rational, etc. That's not dementia.
If you’re worried about her being mad cause you don’t send the paperwork then so be it. You will never solve the problem of elders being mad at you as you have to take over and make them safe.
If she’s not mad about driving she’ll be mad at the next crazy request you refuse to fulfill. And just wait till she goes into care someday. That will be your fault too.
If she’s a danger to herself and the public by driving end it now. Do not send the papers. She’ll have a fit but by playing along you’re just delaying the inevitable.
My mom hated me for putting her in assisted living. It wasn’t until her dementia got pretty bad that she calmed down. She died over a year ago. She still hated me I think but she’d forgotten why and had started speaking to me again.
There ain’t no yellow brick road for this stuff. You just do what has to be done, damn the torpedoes....
Not sure about FL or PA but in TX there is a form you can get from the DMV to report an unsafe driver. In my state any individual can do this. My sister in law got the form filled it out then informed my FIL she was Turing it in reporting his wife.
After being threatened with being disowned, disinherited, blah, blah, she caved. This form might be available online.
I was with my DH in PA while he was on a project for 6 months. I went in, had to surrender my Tx driver’s license, pass the vision test and they issued me a PA DL.
Im guessing your Mom is needing all these documents because she is attempting to do this online?
The only way for me to stop this is by refusing to send the documents. I could also threaten her that I will send her neuro-psych evaluation to the PA DMV, but it will get ugly. She will be so furious. Like I’m the one taking away her independence. This sucks.
I should never have told her about the original letter from the Florida DMV and let that 45 day window close then her FL DL would have been automatically revoked, but I listened to my sister who argued my mom still “had a right to know”.
Now here we are.
I seriously don’t know what to do next. So far I have not responded to her texts demanding I overnight mail the documents she needs. I’m at a loss.
The Golden Rule of Dementia:
There is no reasoning with Dementia
Ah, but. If she applies for a licence in PA, she will presumably have to fill in a form and I *bet* - and you can check - that the question will be asked. She wouldn't be thinking of telling any taratiddles, would she? Or accidentally forgetting to disclose any relevant information? Because that would be Very Naughty.
Why not pop along to the DMV website for PA and see what information they're going to want from her. You may find that this loophole is harder to get through than your mother will like.
It’s not rational at all, and I’ve had it with her insistence that SHE will decide when she can’t drive anymore. My mom has always been a bullheaded pain in the a** and I’m over it.
I’m getting ready to just blast her with the words YOU HAVE DEMENTIA!! I can’t take the denial anymore!