Two sparrows in a hurricane...

Home I'm glad things are moving and I will cross my fingers for all of you that they'll head in the right direction very soon.

Just one thing - I wouldn't come to any conclusions about your father's having dementia right now. Stress, fear and wishful thinking alone would explain his attitude. God willing, once there's more certainty and security around mother's care, he'll adjust and become more like himself again.

Home as difficult as it is, sometimes we have to step back and let them fail for meaningful change to happen.

I say WELL DONE! You are very balanced to know that enough is enough and this is the step to safety for them.

Hugs!

Thanks so much everyone!! Thank you for the support. I feel loved. Even those of you who answered "get her out of there" when I said please don't were spot on. Thought you might appreciate an update, although the story is not yet finished. The home health nurse came and wouldn't take her on. Said it was too dangerous for her to be there with him and that I should take her to the ER! So I sent dad out for something and called for an ambulance. They came but wouldn't transport her because they thought she might not be an admit leaving them with a bill that nobody would pay. I finally had to leave them there together alone (earlier than I planned), crushing what was left of my heart, before my mind was gone. My dad's "bad" behavior became clear to me over the days I was there. He has dementia! Once the blinders were gone, it was so obvious. I can't (and can) believe I didn't know. He thinks things are going well and can't figure out why the nurse quit him. He still thinks he needs no outside help except if he wants to be away from the house. And thinks he might be able to take her along with him... I learned that I am not strong enough (physically or mentally) to want to try to change her by myself so I won't be able to be that help. Adult Protective Services has been contacted by the nurse and myself. I also sent a strong note to Dr prior to her 1 week post skilled nursing discharge appointment set for the day after tomorrow. I am incredibly sad that mom would be uncomfortable or hurting in any way, but had to let this play out as it will and hope that the system works as it should. Thanks again. Further update to follow...

Lots of good thoughts listed, so I'll just say- do what works for you to lower panic, I know the feeling. Wishing you calming, you're not alone.

I feel for your father. This dear man is trying to do it all. God bless him. I wish there was a magic answer. Lots of prayers sent.

Two sparrows... this is a love story. He has scooped her up & carried her home to love & look after.

My Dad (younger, good health) scooped up my Mum after her stroke (hemiplegic) to bring home - against all medical advice. I too had some time off work but not much & then had to stand back & wait. He had to spend 24hrs caring for her in rehab before discharge as a 'trial of care' first. He had passed. So many don't but then when NH transfer is made, they know, tears everywhere in defeat, but they know it just wasn't possible to go home.

This is your Dad's trial of care now.

Either he will cope & have to get paid aides, cleaner, meals delivered etc or he won't cope & you'll get the teary confession phonecall. So be ready with love & hugs for Dad & an emergency respite option for Mum until the next plans can be made.

I truly wish you the best. (((Hugs)))

I haven't read all the answers, but my aunt just had her doctor write her a prescription for a Hoyer lift so that my cousin can turn her. That might help your dad.

When time is right present your case that preserving your father’s caregiving ability is critical to your mothers continued care at home and now is the time to plan.

It's a learning curve, at least it was for me and hard as I know it is in this moment I would urge you to take your ques from Dad. You are there for 2 weeks, step back and let him do it all while you are there to back him up and start doing the research having help back up ready to put in motion if he finds he needs it. So if he finds for instance that doing all the cooking and cleaning along with all the physical functions of caring for mom are too much you have options for help you can arrange to be tried out while you are there (hopefully) not you the help that you will set up to carry on once you go back home. Be there to facilitate and not "do" as much as you can. If he is being really stubborn use this time as a way of knowing what's going on, observing how capable he is or isn't and what battles to pick when it comes to getting him help. See if this might work at home or if it just isn't going to. They must have set mom up with at least VNA assessment and help when they sent her home with dad, at least I hope they did and this is important, don't make yourself so useful that what they see is things are fine, as long as it's assessed they are needed they will keep coming or they will make other suggestions but even though you may be skeptical if they release her they shouldn't do that unless they really are convinced her care is under control. I'm wondering if perhaps the hospital released her home with you and dad, making the determination that because you would be there (even if they understood it would only be 2 weeks) the situation was safe. In any event if I were you I would step back while there, visit with mom and dad maybe find reasons to go out on your own (not to do their shopping) so he is there without back up and take the time to do your research. Maybe go down to the local senior center or Agency on Aging to gather info face to face and ask questions make all the contacts and have all the info at the ready for when you might need it. This way even if it isn't until you are home that dad says "I might need help with..." you already have notes on that and can make calls from home. If you don't have it all set already spend this time getting legalities lined up, make sure you have POA for each of them in case you need to start helping with things (you can do so much electronically, bills, banking, medication, communicate with doctors) and are listed as medical proxy or have all approval on file with doctors and records to know about and discuss their care. Make sure you have at the ready (I suggest a notebook) all the medical contact info for both of their doctors, insurance info etc. If dad is hesitant about this let him know this is just in case it's needed in an emergency, should he have a fall or a medical event or should mom be rushed to the hospital again for some reason, it makes it easy for you to support them by picking up the slack even before you get to town. This way he doesn't have to explain everything and translate what doctors are saying in a crisis event and it gives you peace of mind. If there are things that should be done in the house to make things safer or easier, do them. Maybe even make and freeze a bunch of individual meals for them, that sort of caring helpful stuff that isn't covering up the day to day realities of what he is taking on if that makes any sense.

Try not to make yourself sick over this or get so anxious you can't see the forest through the trees, hard as it is it's also unavoidable, sometimes it takes them failing and that might even mean a hospital trip, to get the changes you already know should be made. If you think about it you can get it from his perspective too, doesn't mean he's right or realistic but I get it. But gentle persuasion and letting him fail may be the way to go at this moment. At least based on my experiences with Mom. Hang in there!

Is he turning her? She is a candidate for bed sores. I agree that he may need to see for himself the full difficulty of what he is trying to do, but hopefully not at the expense of your mom. She must have regular nursing care and some sort of regular oversight. It isn't just about his decision and she can't speak for herself. Secure an agency to provide assistance in the home while you are there because you can help with the transition of outside assistance entering their lives. He can also learn from professionals in the home best techniques to keep mom well and prevent injury to him. Don't wait.

I won't say to get your mom removed from her home. I won't say that your dad is being difficult either. I believe people deserve to live out their life in they way they had planned. This must be heartbreaking for you, and it sounds like you are doing a good job for them. I think just looking into getting a day-to-day routine of assistance with small items will make things easier on them and go a long way to sustain their current situation. I don't know the particulars of course, but perhaps while you are there set up grocery delivery, set up for someone to come in and clean on whatever schedule (weekly, monthly, etc.) seems right. You can manage this remotely online. Also, online prescription refill/delivery also is helpful so they don't have to remember to get to the drug store. There are also all kinds of meal delivery services now and perhaps having a couple meals delivered each week will allow them to not have to think about what's for dinner. If you get these set up while you are there and you can tell your parents you are doing it for yourself, then just tell them that you can keep managing it remotely "for a little while longer" when you leave. It hopefully would not take too much of your time, and will give you some reassurance that some of their needs are being met.

I'm going to try to say this right so please don't take offense.

You are the outsider in the home now - yes, you will always be the child/baby, but your parents have been "on their own" for as long as the nest was empty.

It's not so much trying to prove to you that he is capable, it's most likely more that he has his own routine and way of doing things. This could have been going on for much longer than you are aware of.

I was a 24/7 caregiver for my DH. His children lived several states away and rarely called let alone visit. When one would come to visit for a weekend, it upset our routine. Yes, he was welcome, but it was awkward trying to tend his father and having to work around the son who really couldn't help me. I was often put on the spot trying to figure what to cook because DH & I had settled into what he would eat and I worked around that. I was only 66 when DH passed last year. At 80, your father's routines are seated even more than mine were.

Offer to help, then stand back and let him do what he needs to do. Ask him if he'd like you to fix dinner? Clean the bathroom & kitchen while you're there. Say nothing about anything needing cleaning - that would be offensive and it was done to me - I didn't like it. Just quietly clean the sinks, stove, you get the idea. That would be appreciated - but don't mention that you did it. That would leave your father feeling inadequate or worse. If he notices and thanks you, just be nonchalant about it, and say you are glad you could help.

Especially in your mother's condition, your father needs his routines to get through the days. His is a generation that will not want to ask for help as a rule. I didn't ask for help either. But it would have been lovely if DH's son had offered to mow the lawn for me - just once. Instead he was mostly in the way.
Sad, isn't it : (

Accepting outside caregiver was also hard for my mom. Whenever caregiver came and mom was disagreeable, I introduced her as my friend from Wisconsin. Mom grew up in Milwaukee and had many pleasant memories of her childhood. This worked well nearly every time the caregiver came. It gave them something to talk about and reminisce.

In your case when the caregiver arrives, she would introduce herself as your friend from, where ever, and she is there to help YOU with things you need done.

There are many therapeutic white lies that an outside caregiver can use.

I also had the thought about asking the doctor about hospice evaluation. Don't tell dad that is what it is. Hospice would provide additional services to help mom, dad and you.

Home Care would Cost up the Butt sand Bad Dad is being a Mule...You only Live an Hour away, Keep an eye on this Guy, and if Need be, Get Adult Protective Services Involved to Protect the Welfare of an Elderly Person.

Okay I am a caregiver and my suggestion is stay close because he doesn't know how hard it's going to be and your help will be more appreciated once he sees how much he needs it.

One thing you might want to try...Can dad wrap his head around the idea of a " laundress" or a " maid"? Sometimes using terms for domestic help that our parents have some context for can help them acclimate to having " strangers" in their home.

There was a poster here long ago who was able to get her parents to accept help by introducing them as the laundress, the cook, the maid.

If your parents are financially secure you may want to research in-home services like Visiting Angels (but only tell your dad when he seems receptive to the info). Their people are vetted, and they are licensed, bonded, insured etc. They offer help from companions to overnight RNs. It is not cheap, but I use them for my 2 aunts in FL (97 and 100) and they have been awesome. If you start looking now then you'll have the info ready if your dad signals for help. It took my aunts about 6 months to warm up to the thought of a "stranger" in their house. Now they love their Angel. Your parents have had a lot change in a short time, so very hard for your dad to find his bearings and deal with the emotion of it all while keeping it together for your mom's sake. I am not in favor of individual care attendants...too many stories of financial elder abuse; they don't have subs if they are sick or go on vacation. It will help your anxiety to research options and then have some ideas if he's ever ready for outside help. Good luck!

I am applauding your dad. What a man.

Most of us are stuck with dads that think we were born to be their personal servants. So hats off to your dad.

Have you talked about palliative care for mom? Maybe having a different set of eyes can help avoid any unnecessary crisis.

Is he amicable to a housekeeper or meals on wheels? Any service that would leave him in complete control with some of the weight removed? We have a service called mobile meals and I wish I qualified for them. It is 2 meals per person 5 days a week and you pay at maximum 40.00 weekly. Sliding scale for those that need it.

Encourage him to accept help, it is early days and he needs to think about what would happen to mom if something happens to him. So he needs to take care of himself to ensure his continued presence for his wife.

Let us know how it works out.

Hugs!

Yes, let him do it ALL. That is the only way to find out if he CAN do it and to fully inform him that he is able. It sounds to me as though you may soon be called home to consider placement, as your Mom will, I am sure, be followed up on. If they find the beginnings of bed sores, and so on, you will be notified that she is endangered. I would let them know at work what your situation is, and hope they are supportive. What are the options for her to have some in home care? What is the plan of those who discharged her to the care of your Dad and what is their followup. If there is no plan then this is an unsafe and endangering discharge that could result in disaster. Who knows you will be leaving? The followup folks? Her own doctor? Be certain everyone is aware, and aware that in your own opinion this is an unsafe situation over which you have ZERO control. They may need to intervene and that is better done by THEM than by you.

Start talking about keeping them both together.
Tell him you will be looking for solutions.
Ask him what he wants.
Let him talk this out without giving him advice.

That should be a start?

Do they have any pets?

Sometimes you just have to let things run their coarse. He is obviously trying to convince you that he is superman and thus holds all the power and can do anything. He is not human, don't you know! Since you do not want to place her, then all you can do is try and let him accept some help caring for her, eventually this will all come to a head, and most likely they both will have to leave their home. A rubber band only stretches so far before it breaks. Good Luck!

I agree with Sunny........it's shocking your mother would be released from rehab to live at home under the 'care' of an 80+ year old senior with serious issues of his own! How on earth can anyone expect either one of them to be properly cared for? When my father fell & broke his hip, rehab would NOT release him back home to be cared for by my mother, in spite of the fact that she was in much better shape than your dad. So, I had no other choice but to place BOTH of them in a lovely Assisted Living Facility nearby where they could be taken of care of properly. I was able to visit daily to ensure that fact, and to ease my mind that they were in good hands. If you or your dad refuse placement, I guess your only other option would be to hire 24/7 caregivers to help. You may also need to purchase a Hoyer lift unit if your mother is totally immobile, as it's nearly impossible for anyone to lift dead weight. Here is a link:

https://www.livewellmedical.com/patient-lifts/lifts?_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=CjwKCAjw4NrpBRBsEiwAUcLcDLwK-sOhu9_Ji4WjXVNX44NUQznHUziA8Z7XjJLcp1EyPZ4vMXFFxRoC6HoQAvD_BwE
You really have an unmanageable situation on your hands that can easily end up in disaster, as I'm sure you know. It sometimes takes a disaster, unfortunately, to make a person realize the necessity for Assisted Living.
Best of luck!

What about a hospice evaluation? That might be a short cut to the right kind of help at home.

You could have to get brutal with your father, a bit, judiciously. If he wants to fight on for your mother at home until her natural end, he must have adequate support from qualified people. If he continues to reject that, then her needs will necessarily be neglected because they are beyond the scope of one unassisted caregiver - even if that person were not an eighty year old man - your mother will be considered at risk, and APS will take her away AND prosecute him for neglect of a vulnerable elder. He will lose everything that matters to him.

He's trying to prove he can do it all because he is afraid people will take her away if he can't do it all. He needs to understand that NO ONE can "do it all" and that the opposite of what he thinks is true. If he accepts appropriate help, he is far more likely to succeed in keeping her at home.

HomeisnotHere, our parents as they get older can become really stubborn. I know my parents where.

There isn't really much you can do if your Dad insists in taking care of your Mom. Many of us here on the forums had to wait until there was an emergency before more sane arrangements could be made.

In the mean time, would Dad object to hiring a caregiver to come in once in awhile to help Mom out? Not to help him, because he still feels he can do it all. But to help Mom with "women stuff" which might be a good excuse?

If dad won't allow you to help--there's the outside chance he will accept paid "personal assistants'. I worked in elder care and my clients preferred that I was called a personal assistant--all in the wording. I WAS a caregiver, but in the works 'personal assistant' there seemed to be some level of independence.

BArring that, do they have neighbors who can keep and eye on them for the next couple of weeks and keep you in the loop? Since it's just you, that's a HUGE burden.

Sadly, it's not unlikely that one or both of them will fall, set the house on fire or do something that will attract the authorities. Then you will have more 'help'.

You can't fight a stubborn old man. he has to epically fail before he will accept help.

So, your mother, who had severe stroke, dementia, bedridden, was cleared to leave rehab to be in care of 80 plus, senior who has mobility, memory and hearing issues? Hmmm.....that's pretty wild.

Well, no doubt your father thinks he can do it all for her. How is he doing? Most of the time, it takes 3 shifts of people to care for a person who is bedridden and needing total care. Can he afford or be willing to have outside help come 24/7? If not, I'd likely consult with an attorney to see what the options are. Your mother is helpless. I'd ensure that she be taken care of and I'd take whatever legal measures I had to to make that happen.

It sounds like your dad isn't thinking clearly. I've known people who are totally bedridden, have magical thinking that they are able to live alone. They have lost all sense of reality and live in a land where things magically happen. Her doctor may be of help as well, if he prescribes additional care. Maybe, they could move somewhere together, so they both can get care. Also, Hospice may be of some help, but, they don't stay in the home around the clock.