What can one do to help parents when they put off doing any paperwork such as wills, POA, etc?

I've heard of some elder care lawyers who make house calls. You can try to find one in your area that will come to your parent's home. But that only solves part of your problem. If you could get a lawyer to come to your parent's home will your parent's be receptive to it? You can't force them to sign anything they don't want to sign. Is it that they won't leave the house or that they don't want to deal with the wills, paperwork, and POA? Or both?

Stilltired, regarding the food issue, it is quite normal for when we age that we tend to lose our sense of taste, except for sweets. I feel once an elder reaches into their 80's and 90's, and if they want ice cream for breakfast you just ask "one scoop or two". Let them enjoy what they like even if all the food groups turn into the cookie aisle at the grocery store.

As for getting one's parents to update or create Wills and Power of Attorney, we need to use "theraputic fibs" for their best interest. My parents had dragged their feet on their legal paperwork that was older then dirt. I told Dad his Will was so out of date that the government would take half of his estate. I know that was a fib, but it did get my parents over to the Elder Law Attorney to update all the legal documents :)

Eyerishlass, it is both. My Dad mostly refuses to leave the house, my Mom will but not on her own and they don't really want to face doing the paperwork. I may have to make up a fib to get them to put their affairs in order so that someone can assist them when it becomes even more necessary.

Freqflyer, I have nothing against desserts or treats at all. I don't care if they eat it with their breakfast, lunch and supper. I don't think that you really are grasping what I was saying - on their own they will not eat real food, ever. I'm not kidding! Someone has to make meals, (which they will eat), for them as they just will not make any meals for themselves. My Dad has pain, oxygen and mobility issues and my Mom has some arthritis in one hip but if left to themselves they won't eat any real food. A person just cannot exist on cake and ice cream without developing health problems. I am about to quit even trying.

Do your parents eat decent food when it is prepared for them? Is Meals on Wheels available in their area? My mother loved that, and was very pleased they always included dessert. If I'd ask how lunch was, she'd always start with dessert. "There was apple pie. The crust was good! Oh, and I think the meat was chicken today." If they were eating at least one meal a day with vegetables, meat, fruit, and bread, perhaps you could relax that concern a bit. Maybe then you and your daughter could quit trying, or at least reduce the number of meals she makes each week.

Do they like fruit? A basket of oranges and bananas sitting on the table might tempt them. Nothing to prepare!

Since Dad is very focused on finances, whatever creative incentive you make up should probably be about money.

A lawyer came to our house for my husband to sign all the paperwork. Maybe you could gift your parents new pajamas for the occasion!

You are absolutely right that getting the paperwork done and affairs in order will make your life easier and also make sure that their wishes are respected.

I'm one of seven children and none of us could convince Mother to do POAs or a healthcare directive. (We didn't care much about a will because we knew there was nothing to bequeath in any case.) One of Mother's nephews died. His children said he would not wish for his life to be extended artificially, but he hadn't put that in writing and there was no healthcare directive. So the hospital rules applied and he remained hooked up to machines for a certain number of days, according to the guidelines. Mom felt very bad about that and understood the value of making one's wishes known, but she still would not make out her own.

Not having that paperwork was never an obstacle for us taking care of her. It is pretty amazing, but the 4 girls never had conflicts, and discussed each issue as it came up. The 3 boys were OK with us making decisions. (We kept them informed.) The doctors and nursing home staff we dealt with were willing to let us make decisions. They did ask Mother if that was all right, but they didn't get that in writing.

So don't despair. This will all work out with or without the paperwork. But having it will be very worthwhile. I hope you can come up with something that persuades them to do it.

I have brought my mom to a lawyer to create a trust three times. Because of her anxiety she cannot make up her mind on what to do . The lawyer will not see her anymore unless he simply charges her his normal hourly fee for asking ore questions as he knows she cannot decided. I just posted on another thread my mom is not willing to fill out the paperwork for getting senior metro van ride service.

Thank you all for your responses. In my situation (rural) I am never going to get a "housecall" lawyer nor am I going to gift them with new pajamas as I believe that they have an extensive supply. As for my Dad with finances, well, it is not a benign little curiousity, it is an obsession of major proportions where he screams at my Mom if I take her shopping with me and she spends some money. He wants cash in his pocket at all times but he won't even leave the house. He calls the bank relentlessly daily, over and over to check his balance. He wants to put off paying current bills so that he can have money. He tries to make deals on the telephone with different people to get more money. I just got his Sears account paid off last year (over $10,000 that he charged and went over the limit) by filing a claim on the disability insurance that was purchased on the account; now we find that he has gone behind Mom's back and reapplied for a new Sears card. He has called the bank to have money shifted that has been paid in on their revolving home equity loan (which is directly attached to their home loan) to the checking account if he thinks that his current total of cash is too low and he has transferred so much money from their savings to the checking, that it is almost gone. He spent it somehow. My mom refuses to go to the bank and start a separate savings account in her name in case of an emergency - I suggested this to her last April and she just sits around in her pajamas all day doing pretty much nothing while Dad sits around in his pajamas doing pretty much nothing except for money scheming on the telephone (he hides in other rooms and does it secretly). They refuse to sit down to plan for meals and shopping so that less money would be wasted that way. I am pretty much losing my mind and my daughter is as well. Maybe if my daughter and myself just stop helping them they will have to do something. I am afraid though as I started helping them and applied for his VA disability when I found out in the fall of 2016 that my Dad had been giving out so much money from their SS checks that they were continually in the red on their checking account ($675 overdrawn one month) and spending needless dollars on bounced check fees. It is bad.

It is bad, and I certainly understand your frustration!

There is one piece of this that doesn't require a lawyer or even a notary. The healthcare directive can be a do-it-yourself project. There are many good forms available online, at no cost. And it has nothing to do with finances, which should be reassuring to Dad. After they've filled it out their signature (each on their own document) needs to be witnessed. This can be by a notary but it can also be by two witnesses. The witnesses don't have to see the content -- they just need to witness that the person who signed it in front of them is known to them and is the person the signature says it is.

Sounds like you and your daughter do need to be not as available and see what happens, hard as that might be.

Even though you say your sister is very "self involved"....I think you, she and your daughter should have a meeting. Map out which days who does what. That’s ridiculous she isn’t helping. And the longer you let that go on the harder it will be. You can set boundaries with her. Also, get Meals on Wheels to deliver to them. And check into an attorney who will visit them as someone else suggested as well as using the therapeutic fibs. If your parents don’t have dementia, my guess is they soon will. The lifestyle they are living precludes them to memory issues and poor decision making skills...which it seems they already have.
Best of luck!

I hope you can get your parents to get their finances and legal affairs in order. When dementia sets in, often the elder parent will trust a total stranger and become paranoid and mistrustful of their own family caregivers. I’m an only child and my mother with dementia trusted two unethical attorneys in NJ - who basically stole almost half of her estate, completely isolated her from her family in conjunction with a corrupt nursing home and gained guardianship and control. All because no POA and legal paperwork was signed. My mother died all alone, falling out of her hospital bed with no rails, thanks to her lawyer who became her guardian only 22 days before her death. All her jewelry was missing, they cashed in 30 years of savings bonds and basically got away with it all. Since my mother was Italian born and naive to all business practices, I took care of all her paperwork and finances while she lived with me for many years after my American father passed away. These were not elder care attorneys, but rather ambulance chaser types who were in with the assisted living facility. They saw $$ and went after it in a completely heartless and unethical manner and eventually got away with it after we reported them to the NJ Ethics Board. Hopefully the Attorney General’s office will go after them for the heartless crimes they committed. Don’t let this happen to you and have your family go through what my family had to suffer through - a heart-breaking guardianship trial and watching a loved one being taken advantage of and exploited by terrible attorneys and nursing home staff.

I would be very skeptical of an attorney who makes house calls. My mother’s unethical attorney brought her to his house for Thanksgiving only two weeks after she broke her hip and shoulder at the memory care unit. He was able to keep her separated from her only family and successfully causing her to become increasingly mistrustful by executing “undue influence” on someone weak and vulnerable. Beware.

I don't know how necessary POA is - but I do know a will is absolutely, positively necessary!

Without a will, the state steps in and gets a portion for their time. They then dispense as they see fit - I saw a woman get scr**ed that way because Penn wouldn't honor the NY will they had and her daughter received - and kept - 2/3 of the money when she knew it was all supposed to go to the surviving widow, her own mother.

A will is absolutely needed! POA? I didn't want POA for my dad when others were pressuring him to give it to me. When the time came, I called Hospice and he told them what he wanted and that was that. A week later he passed (he had stopped dialysis).

I bet you could find someone to come to the house for a simple will. You can even get the forms online and have them sign them - remember they must be witnessed - then at least you will be a little more protected.

In reading this, my first impulse is to say, so sorry this is happening to you. My second is to say, well, perhaps this is not your problem. It is their problem. You are not going to fix them. Not sure what country you are in, but perhaps you have access to an advisor to determine what if anything could legally be done to force them. In the US, I think nothing can be done unless they were to be declared incompetent. If your mother would like to not be in this mess, perhaps she might be willing to move? She would have to express desires on her own, then perhaps she could be helped separately. They could live 10+ more years. Unless your father was always like this, he may have dementia; or not. I would consult an attorney and legal authorities. If you could get control of his finances, you could freeze his accounts, stop him from applying for new accounts, etc. But you need legal insight. And if there is nothing you can do, then really, I don't know how much I would do.

If something happens to them where they cannot make decisions and there is no POA in place, they can become wards of the state. Then all decisions are taken out of your hands and theirs. Is this what they want?
Recently I found that the POAs my father and mother had done had expired a decade ago—-he kept telling me everything was fine, his paperwork was in order etc etc.
He broke his back, had to go to hospital, and THEN we found out that nobody had POA.
I laid down the law to him and asked him if what he wanted was to have the government decide what happened to him...he and my mother couldn’t get that paperwork done fast enough. I had it within 2 weeks and made sure I was named as a POA also as my mother is declining in memory as well.
The other route you could take is to apply for guardianship over them. This is time consuming and costly, however.

Stilltired, if your parents like ice cream so much, it might be possible to get them to "switch" to yogurt. This would provide more nutritional value. Someone mentioned bananas; this would be good as well. I don't cook, but I like all sorts of nutritional foods such as sardines, fresh salads, oatmeal, yogurt, and all kinds of fresh fruits and vegetables--foods that are better than most cooked meals.

Would they heat food in the microwave? I would purchase frozen dinners for mom to supplement what I cooked on my weekly visit. What about lunch meat? Also, a lot of restaurants and some fast food places will deliver. You could call them up and have them deliver that way you and your daughter could stay home.

Why are you taking water to them? Don't they have water in the home?

MaryKathleen has a good observation. If they have no water in their home, I think the County Health Department would probably evict them to a safer environment--like assisted living.

I think this is a situation which requires that you be very direct and tough with them. First do all you can to get them to "cooperate" and get things done. If not, tell them you are finished.....you are NOT going to do a single thing to help them, now or later Tell them the are on their own. Scare them good after explaining the will lose everything and have absolutely no control because they will be put away. Make them scared enough to get willing to work with you. And contact the Office on Aging in your county who may possibly help you. They may have to be forced to see what will happen when no one helps them. That might do the trick.

RayLinStephens, a will is only needed if there is something to distribute. Most people who are on Medicaid have already surrendered their assets, and have virtually nothing left to bequeath. Having a will can't hurt, even in that situation, but if the parents are resistant, I think other documents have a higher priority.

stilltired: One tip I suggest in order to take some of the load off you and your daughter is to sign up for Meals on Wheels. It is a noon-time delivered meal, Monday through Friday on a donation basis. (My mother wanted to pay for her's, but I understood it to be a donation based product). That at least would help you out and to ensure that they are getting proper nutrition five days a week.
As they sit around in their pj's 24/7, I'm wondering if they're bathing?
Please see if their town has a Council on Aging, which should have on staff a social worker. That dedicated person could get the necessary documents done. Your parents will be more inclined to listen to someone other than yourself. I had to use my mother's town's social worker, because, after all, "I wasn't telling the truth." Of course I was telling the truth; she just didn't like it.
As for dad not liking the ramp and the shower, he probably thought of them as "old age," instead of needed assists. I hope when I reach the age of needing a ramp/assist that I will say "Oh, yes, please!" I don't want to become belligerent.

When people have reached the end of their interest in living, their body shuts down on food. Yes they become malnourished and yes that leads to an earlier death, one way or another. Dehydration makes the end even quicker.

This site has very regular posts from carers of people in their eighties and nineties, whose bodies have outlived both their minds and their interest in living, with bitter comments about the medical profession who have engineered all this. Other carers are spoon-feeding elders for hours at a time, when the recipient keeps trying to spit the food out. Neither the time commitment nor the medical support was an option in Biblical times, when every family member had to work hard. Perhaps ‘fading away’ is the way God planned us to go.

None of this helps with your paperwork problems, but it might give you some consolation about other issues you are facing. There is a song that says ‘the sooner it’s over, the sooner we sleep’.

Thank you all again for your responses.
1) Our local municipal water quality is not the best. They have running water, our well has better water for drinking and food preparation purposes.
2) We all live in a very small town the nearest agency on aging is over 100 miles away.
3) Lawyers here do not do house calls, ever. Already tried.
4) Meals on Wheels sounds like a good idea!
5) I tried again today after taking my Dad to his VA appointment (an hour round trip) where they asked me if he had a living will or any other paperwork. His response was if something happens to me they will have to take care of whatever it is. He then changed the subject to something about the scenery. He is adamant about not discussing anything about death or dying and assumes all paperwork is only about that.
6) My sister will not participate in any caregiving for my parents, she thinks that they should be taking care of her, I'm not joking.

I am dealing with a hospice in home situation. He will not eat what my mom prepares but will eat what I prepare. His taste has changed even on dishes he prepares himself. It can be medications or the changes in their body. There is a book "Gone from my Sight" by Barbara Karnes, RN that discusses this. I used "Before I Go, You Should Know" to work with my mom and her husband. It included many legal documents. I bought it from Funeral Consumers Alliance. FCA has also helped me as I'm the one discussing his funeral desires with him. We recently learned he did not do his will. Hospice was able to give us a legal aid contact. I did my mom's will and other documents as I have a membership at LawDepot.com. Since he is getting VA benefits try getting them involved, caregiver.va.gov/ He may also respond better to dealing w/ another veteran or VSO. I am also dealing with the money issue on a daily basis, or at least having to hear the arguments on it. A social worker was present today to mediate the discussion as we need to hire a caregiver or send him to adult day care when my mom returns to work. The VA would give you access to a social worker. Hope you find options that work.....take care of you.

Print and read this article to them. It is a real eye opener as to what can happen if anyone (including ourselves) do not have the proper paperwork signed sealed and delivered.

newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

Going other direction on generations - kids with children who just cannot bring themselves to deal with the basic paperwork. Insane!

Short of having someone explain what happens with no will, etc., plus having them realize it may all be dumped on you to handle.. .not sure there is any way to change the situation. Those papers are just the responsible thing to have.

stilltired, I have so much empathy for you! My in-laws didn't have anything in place and we saw (from a distance, as they didn't live by us) that their lives were slowly crumbling. None of their kids, including my husband, really saw the urgency but I thank God that they finally listened to me about how important it was that this paperwork was taken care of. We convinced them to move to our city (in another state) and into Assisted Living. But before that move, I used LegalZoom and did all the paperwork with them for DPOA, MPOA, wills, and Advanced Directives. All they had to do was bring the paperwork I did with them (over the phone, in my case) to their bank to have them notarized. In your case, I'm sure a notary would even come to the house. It was quite easy! They were becoming quite suspicious (dementia behaviors) and I was so glad that they cooperated long enough to get it all done. When they moved here, we were able to take over everything (after about 50 hours of me being a paperwork detective because they threw away things they shouldn't have or there were just hints of things in their files). They didn't like Assisted Living but that was just the way it had to be. They eventually had to move to the nursing home side because of their dementia and also because they ran out of money (it took me literally over a hundred hours to do the paperwork to get them qualified).
If nothing else, you may have to get their doctor involved, or social services. OR...is there someone they would trust that you could have talk to them, and even help them with the paperwork instead of you. I would try to make this a priority and then you can back off on all the caregiving (as much as you dare) and, perhaps, let their poor choices take them where they may. You can't let this drive you nuts to the point of endangering your own mental and physical health. I'll be praying you can come to the perfect solutions. Message me if you wish, and I will support you!

Based on Stilltired's comments and dad's take on paperwork (only for death), I do not see a will being of much importance in this situation (too much debt, loans against house, etc.) A will is more to direct where someone's assets will go after death. If the debt on the house is too much, there won't be any monetary gain. If the account is always overdrawn, same deal. If someone dies intestate (no will), anything left will have to go through probate (which will deplete anything that might be left.) One or the other would be primary to inherit anything left. After that, children would be next.
Given dad's fanaticism with keeping money, yet over-spending it, there doesn't seem there really will be anything left to leave in a will (except debt - and remember even if you get DPOA or guardianship, that debt will NOT be yours!) Of course if a will for either or both can be wrangled, by all means go for it, but it sounds like that is a losing battle, at least for dad - perhaps mom could be convinced to sign something (you indicated that you have taken her shopping, could you have paperwork ready and wrangle a visit to an attorney or notary with her during one of those trips, so long as he is not there?) At least you would have one...

Getting DPOA and medical POA is much more important. Again, given dad's reign on money and refusal to deal with death-type issues, this is also going to be a battle, probably a fruitless one. You can only do what you can do. If they are still deemed competent, and refuse to work with any of this, there is no need for you to stress over it (easy said than done, I know.) You CANNOT force anyone to do something - it is their right to refuse, unfortunately, even if it is detrimental. Getting worked up over something you cannot manage is not worth it. Be supportive, provide some good meals, etc, and whatever happens happens. Your hands are tied. (BTW, even sometimes with cognitive impairment AND DPOA the person's "wishes" will override yours!!)

Rather than focus on the death part of wills and POAs when discussing this with dad, as several have mentioned give him some info about what happens if he or mom becomes seriously ill or injured, aka the state can step in and direct EVERYTHING, including his precious money and where he or she will go to live! He has no POA over her, so the state can step in, same for him if she has no POA over him. Then ask him if that is what he wants. If he says yes, then about all you can do is continue to provide nourishing meals, perhaps using Meals on Wheels, if available (and if they would open the door for the delivery!) Although frozen dinners could be an option, if you prepare extra with each meal you make, portion it out and freeze it for later use. I do this for myself - just as easy, easier sometimes, to prepare a meal for 6 and freeze it, than cooking every day! This would reduce the number of trips you need to make to provide meals. You could still go to visit often, ensure they eat, but have more time to spend with them than working on food.

Another person suggested having an unrelated trusted person try to broach the subject. Perhaps someone from the VA? Do they have friends or neighbors they like? Does not sound like it, if they spend all day every day in the house, but perhaps there is someone... VA might be best - if they come in some kind of uniform, he might be able to relate to that person! Often family members can get shut out, or ignored. The perception might be that you want to take everything away! This is not the case, but he won't relent until he understands this.

Since it sounds like they do not get out on their own, where is all the "junk" food/snacks coming from? Certainly they can have snacks and cookies, etc, but do not leave the whole bag/package there, provide it with the meals you bring. Even ice cream can be left in single servings (plastic containers, or single bars.) This would limit how much crap they eat, especially since you indicated they WILL eat the meals if someone makes it for them!

I just read the entire New Yorker article to which DownSouth provided a link, and I must say that I'm completely appalled and ashamed that in this country this sort of abuse can be tolerated. (It has parallels, of course, with situations in which people have their property, money and vehicles taken because the police think it's "possible that they could have committed a crime" even though there is absolutely no evidence of it.) However, I'm happy to see that the people mentioned in the article finally received justice. I hope everybody on our forum reads this article, whose address I've copied here:

newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights

Thanks to DownSouth for providing this to make us all aware of the problem. Of course this is a warning to us, too, to get our own paperwork in order. In addition, maybe we should do some homework before we even consider moving to a state or city to make certain this kind of abuse doesn't take place there.