I was given Durable POA (financial and medical) for my dad’s friend eight years ago. My dad and I are the closest people to him relationally. Earlier this year, his estranged son, who lives in another state, showed up and started taking over his dad’s life. I assume he had his dad sign a POA sometime this year, as they have not had any prior communication for the past 10-15 years. He was diagnosed with dementia earlier this year. His son has placed him in memory care 50 miles from our home, taken over his banking, etc. I wasn’t going to fight him as long as he was making decisions that benefit his dad.
But, he doesn’t want me to be added to his dad’s emergency contact at the memory care facility to let me take him for walks outside the facility, and informed me that he plans to move his dad to a facility even further away from my home. My dad and I have visited our friend every weekend since he’s been admitted, even though it’s a hundred mile round trip. It will be very difficult for us to visit if he’s placed even farther away. His son does not visit as he lives out of state. Any advice?
I would think if the man already had diagnosed dementia, the new POA may not be legal (but I am not legal!). Capacity is a complicated area.. One can still know who they want to help them despite serious memory problems.
Would you want to persue legal advice to find out the legality of this new POA?
Would you consider finding out if some sort of mediation service could help you & the son understand each other's view? They may vary.significantly.
Eg: I know someone that recently was ill & had to be placed in care. They had long time support people doing the hands-on. Then the POA/S arranged some sort of assisted living instead.
The longer term support people's view could have been : An estranged adult child just shows up one day. Swoops in to take over - decides where the parent will live, takes their money, restricts access to good friends & support. How dare they? Could even look like elder abuse.
From the adult child's view: they weren't so close before, but now willing & able to step in to be more involved. Moving parent closer to their own address makes sense for practice reasons.
May be wary of motives of former POA, even view as opportunistic & a risk to the elder.
Basically you don't know the son & he doesn't know you. A lack of trust seems evident.
Wouldn't it be good if you BOTH have his Father's interests at heart? Be even better if you could get along & strike a compromise?
Have a think on the pros & cons of each;
1. Doing nothing. Losing your friend 😥
2. Attempting to meet/talk to the son.
3. Going full legal advice..
The move won’t be any closer to his son. We are in Florida and his son is in Texas. The new facility is just further away from me in Florida.
Up until this point, I’ve been trying to get along with his son, and told myself I would step back unless he doesn’t do what’s best for Joe. I take your advice to heart and will try to discuss with his son, as I cannot simply do nothing.
Will seek legal advice if needed. I don’t trust his son’s motives; his dad did need care but was much happier living on his own property (he has a few acres with a pond, ducks, and a cat, and was very active before being placed at the facility).
I also think being younger (36) and female I didn’t want to fight his son,(who is probably in his 50s) (Joe is 81) but I do have the legal right and responsibility to make sure Joe is taken care of.
The son must have something legal allowing him to take over his Dads care and being able to work as his representative. He must not be after his money or he would not be able to put him in MC which is private pay. If he ever needs Medicaid, all records are looked at going back 5 years.
Once a person is diagnosed with Dementia they should not be alone. Its very unpredictable. Like Joe thinking he could drive to Texas. I would wonder if someone was able to get sons phone # and called the son thats why he showed up out of the blue. If Joe is capable of understanding what he signed then the POA is legal. Maybe the dislike was on Joe's side and not sons. There's 2 sided to every story. Really 3, the sons, the fathers and the truth. And there would be no way the son was aware of your POA unless told.
Me, I would just let it go. You were there if Joe needed you. His son, for whatever reason, has stepped up to the plate. Its not worth a fight because the son would probably win.
Have you asked the son why he doesn't want you to take dad out for walks? That can be a tricky situation for a lot of residents, I have to tell you. The friend you once had is no longer the same person now. It can realistically be very difficult to get a resident back into a memory care facility once you've taken them out for a ride or a walk. What if you can't get him to agree to go back, then what? This may be what the son is concerned about. Or, he may just be a horses arse, I don't know. It's too bad he's left you out in the cold like this, but it does happen quite often when a friend goes into managed care.
I'm sorry you are dealing with this ,loss and feel as if you've been written off so abruptly. It's really not fair, I agree. I hope you can get some resolution to this matter that will be mutually beneficial to both you and your old friend. Best of luck.
He needs to go on walks because he’s beginning to lose his leg function being sedentary at the memory care facility.
I don’t agree that his son has a prerogative if he’s not acting in his dad’s best interest. Which is why Joe granted POA to me eight years ago, not his son.
Thanks for the well wishes.
This gentleman gave you Durable Power of Attorney eight years ago so that in the event that he became incapacitated you would be able to make decisions on his behalf, in line with his known habits and preferences. Instead of doing that, you allowed his estranged son to take over.
Was there a reconciliation between your friend and his son? Have you ever actually used the DPOA? How is your friend doing in his new memory care, and what has he said about his son's plans for him?
It may be that the planned move to an even more distant facility will allow the son to visit him more easily, and it may be that it really is in your friend's best interests (as well as much less complicated) for his son to take over the management of his care and his finances, I have no idea. But you do need to clarify what the situation is and who is to be responsible, starting with an open discussion of the POA with his son.
His son came to visit a few times. Joe was not and is not incapacitated. He functions well with tasks of daily living. But his cognitive ability to comprehend and answer questions and find the right words is diminished. He has an impulsive personality so that plus dementia equaled him running away from home when his son was visiting, and going on too far of a walk when going to check the mail. I became aware his son had taken over his finances right before he announced he was placing Joe in memory care. When he made the decision to place his dad in memory care, I didn’t see another alternative at the time. That was about three months ago, and he told us two days before he moved his dad. So everything happened a bit suddenly.
No, I have not used the POA except to give it to the hospital when Joe was admitted briefly in February so the doctor would keep me informed of tests and results, etc.
We are in Florida, his son is in Texas, and he’s planning to move his dad to another facility in Florida that is a farther drive for me. His son has no intentions to visit him.
Thank you for the advice; I wasn’t comfortable discussing POAs with his son before, but now that I don’t think he’s acting in his dad’s best interests I will.
Joe doesn’t really like his son, and his son seems to not exactly like him since he wasn’t a good father, but they made up to some degree. I think Joe has been declining since being moved to memory care. He was happy and joyful before, and now he seems more detached. He was very active before being placed in a facility.
Joe is a veteran, and the facility his son wants to move him to is a state veteran’s home. I also thought until recently that it made more sense for his son to be responsible for caring for his dad, but since I no longer think he is acting with his dad’s best interests at heart, I am compelled to do something (hence the request for advice).
I think in home care would be best for Joe, but he would need 24/7 care to make sure he doesn’t run away, and his son said that is too expensive.
Then one day, a small kitchen fire & panic instead of putting it out. Or a walk too far, a fall, laying out all night with a broken leg.
Or wandering from home & hit by a car in the main road in the middle of night like my neighbour.
Maybe Joe was moved too early? Maybe not. Impossible to know.
Neighbour wandered a couple of times during the day.. had someone living there 24/7 but door must have been left unlocked that night.
Weighing up the known risks, the size of the risk + the what the consequences would be.
I can see why a veteran home may be chosen. More men, maybe better funded. As you mentioned, better financially than home.with 24/7 care. I mean who can afford that?
Arranging a fleet of round the clock aids is a big task. No shows/late etc. Can be a nightmare to keep it going. Aides locked out by clients.. Aggressive behaviour is another risk when people become paranoid or hallucinate. Or just having strangers in your home. Sometimes home with services is trialled as Plan A. Then moved into care are plan B. It's not always possible.
I am a bit confused by your saying in your opening that the dad has dementia, but saying that he is capable father down in your responses. If Dad is somewhat capable still of acting on his own then he can change his POA to his son any time he chooses; an attorney will likely have examined him for capacity to make his decision and these changes.
If the son has now taken on acting for his father the courts will be swayed to favor the next of kin, whether he lives nearby or not.
As the father is now in placement of extended care it sounds as though the son will be the emergency contact. Again, reach out to the son, say you would love still to visit, take the father on outings with your Dad, and etc. if that is agreeable. Offer help and ask if he will be acting now for his father's best interests.
In the end this may be a great relief for you, allowing you still to visit and be supportive, but not to have all the legal obligations that go with acting as POA.
I did try to make it clear that I’m not trying to interfere with his son being responsible for Joe, as long as he acts in his best interest. I have been more than helpful. Joe will not be receiving any visitors if he is moved to a facility that is too far away for me to drive to visit. He’s already miserable in a facility, he’s declined since being there, and visits from me and my dad are the one thing that brings some joy back into him.
I am not familiar with courts, but given the circumstances I don’t see why an estranged son who had no contact with his dad for 15 years would be given favor over someone who was granted POA when Joe was of sound mind. That’s the reason POAs are granted, no?
My uncle, with dementia fared far, far better in a Veteran's Administration home than he had in private pay Memory Care.
Back story-- my uncle remained in his home with my very ill Aunt for several years with aides all day and a live in adult son. Once my aunt died, his kids moved him to memory care until his behavior got him kicked out. The Veteran's home had better psychiatrists, better meds, better activities and a real peer group for him--other survivors of the death March and the rest of the South Pacific theater of WWII.
Home alone is NOT the best place for someone with dementia. Home with aides is problematic if there is no one to provide oversight.
Joe was home with aides, but it was too costly for 24/7 care. Hopefully the VA home will be better for him than MC, as his current facility is a bit mediocre.