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My heart is heavy, I just need to talk to someone about what I am going through. My Mother in law moved from another state last year and she has always been close to my husband. So much so that it has created tensions in our marriage for the past 18 years. We almost broke up last year because of her.



When she moved to our state, she wanted to buy a new home, our neighbor was selling her house so my husband proposed that we would move in the neighbor's house while my mother-in-law would move into our house. When I refused, my husband got so mad at me and his mom was in full support of him, making me feel like I did something wrong for not wanting to move out of my own house. The deal with the neighbor's house failed and I was relieved to finally stay in my house. My mother-in-law ended up buying another house, 7 miles away from us. My husband and I talked about it and he told me that since his mom is now 81, he wants her to be as comfortable as possible.



We also decided that we will not be her caretaker and that we will hire help when the time comes. She is now 81, difficulty walking, completely dependent for all her chores, finances, groceries and my husband is doing it all. She also wants him to cut her hair, cut her nails, do her nails and run all errands that she can think of. It is so excessive that my husband is going through a burnout and refuses to acknowledge it.



Here comes the icing on the cake: months ago, she did look to hire a potential home care company but now, she changed her mind. And the worst part is that my husband and I used to travel every year and take a whole month vacation. She knows this and when we told her that we wanted to plan a vacation, then she said that she doesn't want to hire home care because she feels uncomfortable.



Instead, she wants my husband to drive her 600 miles from where we live, to stay with a family member and she wants him to come pick her up. Everything she wants, my husband makes it happen and he feels guilty if he doesn't do it. It is now affecting our marriage, we often argue because of her ongoing excessive requests and each time, my husband replies that she is older and that it is only for a season.



I am losing my mind, I need a break from this madness. It hurts me to see how he invests so much time and energy into her, yet he neglects me in the process. It hurts like hell, even though he says that he loves me, he doesn't realize the pain he causes me.



Sometimes, I have the feeling that my mother in law is doing this on purpose. Has anyone experienced a such situation? What can I do to protect my marriage? I am walking on thin ice obviously and I need a break from it all. I cry often when I am alone, I think it's so unfair that a mother could interfere this much into the life of her children, without taking any responsibilities.



She is now 81 and has been diagnosed with End Stage Renal Disease and I fear that she will ask us to take care of all of her needs, while we are already drained.



Thank you for your feedback.

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I am in THE SAME situation except w have only been married 3.5 years and I have been dealing with this for 2 of these years.... his mother had a stroke and refused hospital, rehab, moving in with relative. She insists that he does it all and so does he. Neglects marriage, me, finances,house, chores his own bills. I end up paying our rent and his car and our other joint bills. I wish I had a solution for you. I am inquiring about divorce and legal protections as he has 60k in loans without consulting me for him and his mom and sister. I am praying for you. This is not normal.
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She sounds like Marie on Everybody loves Raymond. I think of what Debra (her daughter in law) goes through because of Marie babying Raymond and interfering in their marriage as she puts Debra down always and tries to competes with her because she’s jealous of her relationship with Raymond.

Even though it’s suppose to be a comedy I’ve never liked that show because it shows Marie as being manipulative and I’ve known of too many real life situations like that with so many toxic in laws situations with mother in laws fighting for their place in their grown sons lives.

Granted your mother in law is getting older and does need support, one of the things I did hear you say is that she constantly has your husband doing so much for her even personal care and that he is suffering from burnout. You also said that she was considering additional caregivers. This can actually be to your advantage, since we all know most total caregivers suffer from burnout.

Since obviously neither of them are paying attention to you and your feelings, if you have the courage to step back and let him take care of all of her personal needs while not let either of them know how it’s really affecting you, as he burns completely out, it’s a great chance he will get sick of it. He may screams out and start looking for agencies on his on. He may create a whole list of them.

Using reversed psychology you can use that time while he’s burning out to take care of yourself and do something special for you. Like a child throwing a tantrum it takes all the fun out when they are ignored. They may both wonder who is this new you.

Since your mother in law is obviously controlling things and knows she has the power to physically control him and mentally upset you, you take away her power when you step back. Also when you ignore them both you may scare him since you say he does love you but doesn’t show it. This fear can force him to take on responsibilities.

Once he’s ready to intelligently make wise decisions about her future care then you can be prepared to listen and then Mother in law will be forced to respect everyone’s role, including her own and your home can have a degree of normalcy.
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Cindy, I just read your latest message. It really doesn’t sound like he will change around mom, so I would suggest some foreword commitment. Like by the first of the year she will have 24/7 aides or facility or solution other than him.

If she stays off dialysis it won’t take that long, and if she goes back on it, she’d prob have to be in an snf.
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Cindy, from your most recent update--"Then it became a "why don't you do what I ask you to do" type of conversation".

Because he is no longer her minor child. He's an adult with the ability to say "no, mom, I can't possibly do that".

Find an article on F.O.G.--Fear, Obligation and Guilt--and print it off for him.

https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt#:~:text=FOG%20%2D%20Fear%2C%20Obligation%20%26%20Guilt%20%2D%20The%20acronym%20FOG%2C,suffers%20from%20a%20personality%20disorder.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Thank you for this article, I will read and print it and share it with him. Some mothers are very narcissistic, I can see this pattern in his relationship with her. She has always wanted to control him or his life so as a wife, it is very disturbing to witness that.

Now she is older and ill, so there is little room to help him see what is going on, he feels that she could die soon and he is trying his best to make her feel special. I am going to step back for a moment and give him room to process it all. I am happy that he offered to take me on a little vacation. So we are going !

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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I just read an update where DH said he is not a valet!

👏 Bravo Mister!

It's one thing to care, be kindly & offer to help.

It is quite another to be the on-call-help.

When I found myself there.. I (after quite some time..) I quit.

I had intended to redraw & reduce but I was still pushed & pulled. In the end quitting was clearer.

Family. Staff. Separate.

Think about it.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I was so proud of him when he took a stand. Finally!

Thank you so much for your message, it is appreciated.
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Tell hubby you’ll go on vacation without him if he just wants to be with his mother. Then go .

Caregiving for a season could last another 10-15 years.

I’m caregiver for my 94 (95 this week) mother with dementia…but Im not married…but if I wasn’t so involved with my mother..my life would be different..but I’m not hurting or neglecting a husband by my caregiving.

You have to make changes for your health & happiness..if hubby won’t. He seems married to his mother. That’s wrong & it won’t do you any good. I’d be miserable too if I were you. I hope things change for the better…
Hugs 🤗
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2022
Are you hurting and neglecting yourself because of caregiving?
Your time and life also have value, CaregiverL and you should not have to sacrifice all of it to caregive.
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CindyRella2022: Your husband's first priority is his marriage and you. He may require some form of counseling to realize how painful this situation is for you.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Because of his mom's health, I believe counseling will not be appropriate right now. He is suffering in silence so his mind will not be able to receive the message. However, he sees the damage that it does to our relationship and I found that when I step back, he tends to come closer to me.

I pray that he will start to implement home care soon, this will help all of us so much and give us the break we all are hoping for.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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You mama's-boy husband has to choose between you and his mother. There is no other solution and you're powerless.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I feel like I do have options however, I am very aware that any choice I make could have a strong impact on my husband. I do love him and want to support him during this season because everything is changing, his mom's health is deteriorating and I know he is in pain. So I have to be very careful not to hurt him more than he is.

I have the power to changes things but I have to wise on how to use it. I also see her mental decline, even if my husband is still in denial, there will come a time where he will have to face it. So i have to give him this space, to be able to accept that his mom is no longer what she used to be.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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Please arrange for couples' counselling for yourself and your husband. He is having difficulties in prioritizing his relationship with you. There are plenty of ways to care for his mother while also nurturing his marriage. He needs to see this with the help of a professional. He also needs your encouragement to be loving to you as well as his mother.

When it comes to caring for others:
you can make sure they are healthy,
you can make sure they are safe,
but you can not make sure they are happy... that it their own responsibility.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
This is so true. However, therapy at this point would be useless because of her declining health, he is in pain and he wouldn't be able to receive what the councilor have to say.

Thank you for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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CindyRella,

You have a hard road ahead of you. My guess is that the dynamics between DH and MIL have been going on for a long, long time so that even when you can get your husband to acknowledge and agree to what makes perfect sense, when he approaches his mother with it she sees that by agreeing she loses control of the relationship by allowing him the freedom to have other commitments in his life. My guess is that it is hard for him to buck her because he is still suffering from the delusion that if he just tries harder, if he just does a little more, if he just anticipates and then meets her every need, she will love and approve of him. It's hard to give up on winning a mother's love without feeling like a failure! And how do you help the child of a narcissist understand that a mother's failure to love her child is a reflection on the mother, not the child? It took me years to work through this myself, but I'm so thankful I did long before my mother came to need my care. I now understand that my own worth stands in my character and integrity, not in my mom's approval, so when I need to step away to take care of my own needs or of my husband or children, I can do what I need to do knowing that she has shelter, food, and clothing, and she has people who will see to her health and wellbeing in my absence. Inevitably, she has a crisis when I take this step and I do have to steel myself to be strong, but having finally learned what the limits of my relationship with her are, I can be more objective about what I hope to accomplish for her. It still is hard at times, but it's worth my own sanity.

I don't know how you get your husband to come to the realization that he will never get what he (perhaps subconsciously) seeks from her, but I hope that you can find a way to continue to support him even as you protect yourself. I think maybe the vacation by yourself is a good idea - at the very least, you get some distance and perspective so that you can be refreshed to return and help him deal with things. A vacation may also serve to put all the weight on him so that he may be forced to realize he just can't do it all. The other suggestion you have gotten that seems especially good is for you to take on some of her care - that way your husband can know that someone HE trusts is caring for his mother but she isn't getting her way to run his life. Even if all you do is take her for a nail appointment, that's one less thing on him, one less grip she has on him.

Finally, it might help your husband to understand that if stands firm on getting outside help, he no longer has to take care of the mundane needs and can focus on quality time with her. It's easy to get so wrapped up in dispensing meds, going to appointments, keeping things clean, and preparing meals that you run out of time to talk to your LO about Life while you still can.

I wish you the very best here. I've been more in your husband's position than yours, but I have seen the anguish my husband suffered during the years when I still sought her approval as he tried to help me see things through clear eyes. It isn't easy but it's worth it!
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Michelle2828 Mar 2022
wow, that's incredible advice. i just wanted to ask, what is the meaning of LO? sorry, but i can't figure that one out.
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“It is so interesting because he can go to the extreme and then regret his behavior and ask me to forgive me for the pain he caused.”

Dear Hubby may need a therapist who is objective. It seems he believes he has to choose you or his mom and whatever he decides is wrong so he’s in a guilt laden No win situation. A therapist could set boundaries for him.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I believe it will help him too but the situation that makes everything harder is that she is old, she has no one around and no one wants to be around her too. She has chronic diseases and she is reaching the last stages so he feels guilty and he also feels like she may not have long to live.


I would behave differently with him if she was younger and healthy but right now, I do understand the situation but I refuse to sacrifice my marriage over her. So this is where the struggle is right now.

Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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CindyR I am so sorry you and your husband are going through this. It is draining on both of you (even though he may not realize it). You have some great suggestions and support here.
Sounds like your Hubby is possibly and only child and unusually close to his Mom. Maybe he is from one of the cultures (there are lots of them) where taking care of the elderly at all costs is expected from relatives including those who have married into the family. All that having been said, I do feel that your MIL is congnizant enough to be pulling all the right strings to make him jump through hoops. Counseling might help but I have a feeling he may be so tired that he won't be able to find time to go but I would still suggest it strongly if I were you. Then you need to worry about taking care of you because only your husband can save himself and only he can recognize there is a problem. If you have to take a separation from each other to find your way after counseling, you may need to consider that although I'm sure controlling MIL will try to take advantage of that which is why you do counseling first.

You can, as as been suggested, bring along a "friend" on one of your visits. The "friend" is of course, a paid person because we know, having run off the friendly neighbor, your MIL can be overloading. Pay will give the new "friend" a reason to withstand the overload. The friend can start with you doing some light housekeeping while chatting with both of you. Gradually the friend can start to come alone. Now she is a visiting friend not some "outsider" that MIL doesn't feel comfortable with.

I think you should, if at all possible, not move MIL any closer to you -- and that includes building an ADU in your backyard or moving her in with you. YOU will become caretaker while you husband is at work!!

Wishing you luck and peace at this difficult time. Please keep up updated.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I am so grateful for all the support and suggestion on the forum, really it is beautiful so find such support during this difficult season. I thought I was alone but now, I know this is no longer the case.

My husband said that he will try this approach with her but then, he tries to delay the implementation. Today for example, she called him early, asking him to wake me up because she just realized that she was out of one of her medications. Mind you that two days ago, I contacted her doctor for him to renew one medication, she could have told me that she needed a refill for this other medication.

I told my husband that the way the refill works is that I submit the request and by the next day, she will have it available and we can go pick it up. So then, she told my husband to go today, to run to the doctor's office to get the prescription right away. He was in panic mode because she was panicking. And the result was no different then if he followed my advice. He couldn't get the medication today because the process needs 24h.

It happened today, today was the day that my husband chose to take me out for lunch, something we have not done for months. And yet, she screwed that up for us. He spent the whole day running after this medication, trying to go out of his way to get it for her. I am so fed up. I wish that she could be in a nursing home at this point because all beautiful moments I could have with my husband, she is stealing them all.

Someone on this forum said that they thought I sounded selfish, I wish them to go through this hell and come back to let us know how it feels. Thank you so much for your message, it is very encouraging to find such support. I appreciate it.
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Your husband is the millennial who grew up in a previous question. He apparently never set boundaries and this is what happens. Since she wants him to do everything, he can hire the caregiver from the agency for the month that you will be gone. Start a few weeks early to work out any kinks. Use moms money to pay for caregiver. Husband needs to grow up. If he won’t, I suggest you go on a months vacation alone. It might help him.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
The other day, I told him that I believe he is a Mama's boy and that it is affecting our marriage. He did not like to hear it and I know that since then, he tries to find way to make me feel special at time. But as soon as his mother calls, he forgets all about it.

I believe that he doesn't know anymore how to be my husband while spending so much time with his mother and helping her for all of her needs. If things get too complicated, I will take a break alone. For me, that break will mean to rest and renew myself.

I appreciate your comment, thank you for your message.
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Your MIL needs some tough love. You and your husband do enough for her and the two of you have to stand up to her. The fact that both of you agreed not to become her caregiver is a positive step.
She owns her own home. It's a house. Not an apartment or an AL community. This means that a live-in caregiver/companion can be moved in without problems.
If she is "uncomfortable" with a hired caregiver painting her nails and doing her hair, ask her if she thinks not getting these things done would be more uncomfortable. Then you and your husband flatly refuse to do them again. If family 600 miles away want her to visit, they can arrange and pay for a flight to get her there and back. You and your husband offer to take her to the airport.
My mother was much of the reason why my first marriage broke up. I was very young and didn't understand things like gaslighting, guilt, and manipulation. I always thought everything was my fault because I was always wrong. I was raised to be the family scapegoat. My mother's narcissism and lifetime of untreated mental illness created it. Your husband could also have also been a victim of his mother's narcissism growing up.
From what you've said here, your MIL is definitely doing it all on purpose.
She has put herself into competition with you for your husband's attention and affection. She is jealous of you and wants to prove that her son will always choose 'mommy' over every other woman. Make this a contest she loses.
Tell your husband straight that either both of you go on your usual vacation for one month or you will leave him. Ask him if his mother being 'uncomfortable' with the idea of hired caregivers painting her nails is worth him losing his marriage over.
I'm pretty sure he'll choose you. Then go on that vacation and do not even call mother the whole time you're away. Communicate indirectly by talking to her caregivers that were hired or to friends and family that might be checking up on her.
The important thing is not to call her. She needs to learn that you and your husband are not going to be at her beck and call 24/7. She also needs to get the message that the day her son married, 'mommy' stops being the number one woman in his life. Good luck.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I agree with you, she needs tough love but instead, she gets spoiled to the point that her sons often say "whatever you say goes". So it is extremely difficult to feel like she has that type of power and influence over my husband. Since she lives near us, he often forgets to be my husband.

I know it is a difficult time for him too, so I do not dismiss this part. I try to let him spend as much time with her as possible without interfering however, I often feel alone and neglected. If only she would accept home care help, our life would be so much better. I know my husband wouldn't worry this much about her, knowing that she is taking care of.

It is difficult to approach the situation with ultimatum because now, she is ill. Even though she act like nothing is wrong with her, she cannot walk properly, she is in pain constantly, she needs help with the groceries, the bills, the everything you can think of. So I am always trying to find the best solution for her and to make sure that she is comfortable but I also want to protect my marriage. I think her behavior is truly excessive.

I now believe she has mild dementia, several things happened during the last few days that show a change in her brain function. In the light of that, her behavior could be explained by her lack of logic. My mom had dementia too and she made so many unreasonable requests before she was finally diagnosed. So I want to make sure my mother in law is properly diagnosed and when she is, I believe we will have our answers.

Now.... let's pray my husband understand at this point and hire home care for her. She is 100 percent dependent, she is losing mobility and she could end up being in a wheelchair very soon. I am thinking about it from all angles, that's what helps me in the process. I do have compassion for her, but in the same time, we need boundaries and when we help her, we need extra help so all the work doesn't fall on us.

Thank you for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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However you get her there, at least your MIL has an alternate place she can stay during your vacation.

She does seem to be manipulating your husband for his time and attention. Some mothers do resent a sons wife from the moment the son meets and marries someone.

Some of your MIL's requests may be reasonable. Personal care is too much as are unnecessary errands, repairs professionals could do, etc. your husband needs to draw a line beyond which he does not provide free, on-call help.

Is there any part of MIL care you could participate in so you don't feel so rejected? Maybe you could arrange hairdresser/manicure appts and drive her there. She may say she won't do that b/c she doesn't like you or b/c her son can cut her hair, but she does not have that choice. Her choice is between your taking her to a hairdresser or not having her hair cut. Provide similar choices for other care situations.

Your husband needs to set limits beyond which MIL will have to hire help or do without.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
The way I participate in her care right now is that I take care of all her doctors appointment, I supervise all her medication and their refill. On that note, I have an issue because she orders extra unrelated supplements on Amazon and some of them are contradicted. I also clean her house on a regular and I check on her on the phone all the time when I am not going to see her. I do work intensively and I have to stay focus on my work but I must say that since she moved close to us last year, my results for the past year have been mediocre. You can connect the dots.

I do not want to get involved with her care more than I already do because, the more we do, the more she asks and this is the reason why she keeps refusing external help. I am so drained by all this, I just need to keep myself at a distance for now, so I can regain my energy and peace of mind. Mind you that she has become the reason why my husband and I argue so much lately. Always because of her and her ongoing and excessive requests.

I give you an example: not so long ago, her neighbor had to go to the hospital for the night. She and her husband came back home and their family members took care her them. Now... my mother in law asked my husband to go and get them some food because she said that they must be hungry. So my husband asked her: did they told you that they needed anything? and she replied that she called the neighbors and that they told her that they did not need anything because their family member already took care of them. STILL... she insisted that my husband go and get them some food.

Then it became a "why don't you do what I ask you to do" type of conversation and I must say that on that day, I was proud of my husband because he stood his ground and told her that he was not going to do it. That he is not a valet and that the neighbors did not need anything in the first place. She got mad, hung up the phone, but on that day my husband said that he did not care if she was going to have a bad day and this was may be what she needed in order to understand that her behavior is way beyond excessive.

So yeah... this is the madness we are dealing with from time to time. Thank you so much for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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First, you need to remove any guilt she is trying to impose upon you. Your husband should do the same, but it is harder for him and it is up to him.

Second, both of you need to understand that you MIL’s choices are her own. I don’t think you mentioned dementia so, she’s cognizant about her choices. The idea of, “I make choices and the consequences are yours,” has played out. You can try to make her as comfortable as you can — but, without being bullied and guilted into sacrificing your life. You and your husband have the autonomy to make choices. This doesn’t mean your MIL won’t be angry for not getting her way. It also doesn’t mean that she will not try to make choices that are negatively-impactful to you. But, you have to erect a firewall to this, emotionally, financially, and otherwise.

Sadly, when “some” elderly become as such, they are angrily entitled to the lives of others. They may even understand that they don’t care what happens to you other that you’re never retire, in the interest of caring for them. The list goes on. But, you have to erect a firewall, as best you can and you also have to have a firewall between yourself and others, including the authorities, if they make you feel that you are wrong, for not dedicating your every breath to her.
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Beethoven13 Mar 2022
I agree with your post. To the original questioner: Be prepared for medical crises, tears and guilt trips, the silent treatment, bad mouthing you to relatives and neighbors, threatening to cut you out of the inheritance or will. It’s all been done and generally reflects how pathologically selfish the elder is. You can read about elderly narcissist to learn about this personality and how to deal. The mantra that many of us have learned is they do Not change. They did not receive good enough parenting and it is a generational narcissist pattern that continues until someone educates themselves and does the difficult emotional work to set and Hold boundaries. Reading online and YouTube about generational narcissist and elderly narcissist is helpful. Abandonment fear is often the core issue. Setting boundaries triggers that fear. They also fear losing control. Inform her of what you will do, do it, hire out with her money the other things. Drop her at Supercuts while you do grocery shop. Nail place for trim and filing once a month. Podiatrist for the toes every couple months. Don’t give lots of choice. That’s how it’s done. If she refuses to go. Then so be it. Her choice. Hire a yard service to come twice a month so that is taken care of. Come over once a week on weekend and bring dinner to eat with her and visit. Tend to the few financial things and minor stuff then. That’s it. Meals on wheels drops off food Once a day, M-F. Don’t let her bully you or guilt you. And try not to argue. Stay calm. If you argue it can make you feel guilty and then you giving. It’s better for You to keep calm and pleasant. Keep conversation light and superficial. Don’t try to resolve old issues or get her to understand, it’s unlikely to happen.
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Such good advice here. I think the odd relationship with his mother, her illness, and his ties to you have driven him a bit crazy. He can't really think rationally. I would take care of yourself at this time. It will refresh you and allow you to be less wound up about his behavior. She will die; you two will be left to recover or improve your former relationship, or not. I can't see him getting the distance or energy to change their relationship at this time. But your can change your relationship with yourself and your emotions. In any relationship the other person has to work out their own issues on their own at times. Give him room, determine what you can manage or not and act on it, see what is left and how to deal with it, when all this is over.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
You are so right, he needs room so he can try to make sense of this situation. It is difficult for him. He gets to see his mother changing, from being who she was to slowly getting weaker, it is hard. I now believe that he fears that she could pass any day. So I have to be careful and acknowledge his feelings too.

To tell you the truth, this situation wouldn't have happened had she accept the home care and help at home. Her refusal to implement it has caused to many arguments. It is so sad. If she did not have the mean to cover help at home, I would have kept it quite but this is so not the case. She is very comfortable financially but she refuses the external help and doesn't care the damage she does to our marriage.

I know one day, things will be different. Thank you for your message, I appreciate it.
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you all need help - its a difficult situation. but you sound selfish
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BluebonnetCA Mar 2022
Your reply is not helpful. It is not selfish to worry about your husband and your marriage. She needs help, not judgement.
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The F.O.G. has lifted somewhat for you CindyRella - you can see the underlying issue;

"he feels that he needs to provide and give her what she has asked for"

WHY? Why does he feel he cannot say No?

You can't force him out of his own F.O.G & there may not be time.. so just stick to your own boundaries & say a polite no when you need to.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I think he now believes that she has very little time left to live and this is why he gives so much of himself to try to please her in every way. This is getting a bit more and more obvious.

Thank you so much for your message, I truly appreciate it.
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I feel for you CIndyrella.

Is she on hospice yet? If not, she should definitely be evaluated for that.

Have her current docs that diagnosed renal failure given an estimate on how long she can live in this condition?

Is her paperwork in order? Will, living will, POA, etc.?

Soooo many elders say they don't want helpers. Oh well. I feel like TOO BAD. It's so grossly unfair to expect sooo much of your husband.

Housecleaning? Hire someone today! Even though you are not doing it, your husband is at the end of his rope too and should not have that additional burden. That's a real easy one to offload. If she doesn't want to be there, have hubby bring her to your house for a few hours though that's kind of ridiculous too. My mom lives with me and complains every time the cleaning people come. I had to hire them (with her $) since she can not take care of her room or bathroom anymore. She's always saying maybe we should cancel this time and I say NOPE they are coming! Ugh.

There are many things your husband can get help with ASAP. Cutting the grass? Hire a service today. He should not be doing that. Home maintenance? Hire someone. Her nails? Good lord - take her to a nail salon for a nice mani/pedi as needed.

Shopping? Cut down on the amount of times he will go to the store or have groceries delivered. Amazon is an excellent source to have so very many things delivered right to her doorstep.

He can set some boundaries yet still be there for her.

As for your vacation - I say go for it! Tell hubby you really need a break and you understand if he does not want to go away right now you understand but you hope he can also understand that you could really use a vacation. Maybe even just go somewhere not too far away for a long weekend? Have a spa weekend! Get a massage, do yoga, eat well, read a good book, get in a hot tub. Pamper yourself - even if it's an hour away, it would still be a getaway and you could just relax!

Best of luck.

Since she is likely near the end of her life, your husband should spend his time WITH her, not doing all these chores!
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Everything you mention, I do understand and I already shared that with him. It always lead to an argument. Because his mom refuses the help, then he feels that he needs to provide and give her what she has asked for. So in order words, whatever she says, goes.

This is so awful, so many times this woman has disrupted our happiness, but now the real culprit is my husband because he is acting like her son and forgets to be my husband.

I hope that there will soon be a light at the end of this tunnel. Thank you for your message, I am truly happy for all the support I received from this forum.
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Just wondering, has their doctor told you guys exactly what her numbers were at? I know a friend of mine who’s father was on dialysis was given information regarding his kidney function and even with dialysis he did not last two years. Granted, he ate poorly and was a large man so contributing factors even still I have not heard of many living long with end stage without treatment.

Was on the donor list and everything, general consensus seems to be ESRD patients do not live long without dialysis, and thankfully the death is generally not painful.

The aspect of her having an ample energy makes me wonder though, since every person I have seen that required dialysis as the toxins built up they got sluggish and lethargic to the point that even the most ambitious dyspeptic would acquiesce to the need for help no matter from where it came from.

Also I wish you all the best, many here understand your position but on the outside in the wild very view will understand your position. Many will praise the actions of your husband, while condemning yours. The praise especially from healthcare professionals may lead to even embolden the position your husband has taken, making it that much harder to sway or have him understand your position. Trend carefully cause your MIL will die, and how you navigate this leg of the journey will determine if your marriage dies with her also. Your husband will not be able to be reasoned with, he will most definitely have many more voices that support his actions.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
Her gfr is now 15, so she is right at the beginning of ESRD. She has anemia and she is getting more tired than she used to be but she is fighting it. This is the part that blows my mind. She may understand what is happening, I am unsure and that would explain this energy she is displaying. When people fight illness, it is common for them to deny it and act like it's not even here.

Today, we went to see her and she was still sleeping at 12pm, she did not get out of the bed but once she heard we were coming, she used all the energy she had to make sure she would display normal behavior. She forgot to take her blood sugar and was complaining about forgetting many things lately. There is a cognitive change in her so she is getting diagnosed soon, even though she was against the idea.

Today, at breakfast, my husband suggested that we used our backyard to create a house for her so we can better look after her. I told him that I did not want to and he asked me why. Again, I had to repeat myself and I used my words wisely and he understood. He said that he will not bring it up again.

You are so right, we are now walking on eggs in our relationship, all because of her refusal to get help. It is so difficult because now that her mind seems to be affected, I cannot see her making rational decision anymore. So if she gets properly diagnosed, it might help my husband se that some of her behaviors are irrational.

I pray that we survive this challenge, I simply cannot understand how he can force her on us and not even think about how it is affecting us. Thank you so much for your support, this conversation truly helped me see things from a different angle.
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Cindy, one more thought. This is a long-standing pattern of behavior, this dance between your husband and MIL. And it seems, judging from last year's kerfuffle over his request/demand that you vacate your home for her, one that he does not see anything wrong with.

I would strongly recommend that you find a therapist to work with you on finding ways to set some boundaries and make sure that you feel like you have someone in your corner.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
It is so interesting because he can go to the extreme and then regret his behavior and ask me to forgive me for the pain he caused. I have no doubt that he loves me and I love him too but his bond with his mother is simply toxic. When she was still very healthy about 15 years ago, do you believe she would call him 3 to 4 times a day ? Oh my God this woman felt so entitled on all level, this is insane.

Now that she is older and weaker, I have compassion for her but I am unwilling to sacrifice my own happiness to make her happy. While she will be here, there will be no reasoning with my husband. He simply doesn't listen or accept this fact. It is extremely difficult to help him see that his behavior is excessive. I believe that the only thing that would make him react is if I was to decide to travel on my own for sometimes.

In our 18 years of marriage, it never happened because we always traveled together, including traveling overseas. Thank you for your extra thought, I appreciate it.
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Cindy, another thought.

If YOU have a cleaning person, or if you have a friend or neighbor who does, take that person with you next time you go over with DH to clean MIL's home. Introduce this person as a friend and clean with her, at least initially. Maybe tell Mil that this is someone who needs more work.

The key here is that she doesn't want STRANGERS in there home. So bring friends.

I see that you take her to doctor's appointments. At her next visit, I would bring up to the the doctor how worn out your husband is, and that you are afraid. that Mil is killing her son with her demands. (Prep the doctor beforehand with a note). Your MIL is of that generation that listens to doctors.
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Countrymouse Mar 2022
This could help a lot - given the right doctor. Some can be astoundingly obtuse! and perhaps not fully on board with encouraging supported independence.

So I should reconnoitre first, just in case the doctor shoots the fox by telling MIL how lucky she is to have such a wonderfully devoted son...
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Dear cindy

firstly sending love to you all at this hard time.

im relatively new to all this, but my dad has been declining in health for the last 3 years. Mum is main carer, my supports increased, but last 6 months have been a big decline, and mum is 83 so I’ve stepped up even more. Feet are a speciality!

has it taken its toll on my marriage, yep without any doubt, My OH is the sweetest most amazing patient guy in the world, but If I’m not exhausted I’m anxious and I’m not the full of beans person I was a year ago. I’m an only child and my parents live 7 miles away. I say similar things like your husband and I feel the guilt if I don’t help.

now your MIL has been diagnosed with ESRD, as all the brilliant advice been given here, she may not have long left, and I doubt that hubby will want to make any changes to the support he’s giving, and it’s likely when things get tougher he’ll be there more. But he needs to get help in, (my dad had a long stay in hospital so after that we got a carer in 4 times a day as part of renablement in the uk, which really helped)

I would try and get him some respite - can you get someone in for a few hours to do chores at MIL so at least OH can get a break from that stuff. Can you do an overnight stay somewhere localish together - just one night. is there someone closer than 600 miles you could get to stay for a night.
How can you two get breaks, even if it’s a coffee and a walk? My time with my OH are dog walks which once were “jobs” of the day! I’d even consider getting someone in to do the chores in my house when things get tougher, as the time you have together should be yours and keep your energy as much as you can. You might not get that month vacation at the right time, but it will happen later on. My OH reminds me it’s ok to take a break all the time, it’s not an ultimatum but a reminder to take care of myself so I can help them.

my heart really goes out to you all. I hope the time ahead is as peaceful and comfortable as it can be.
you obviously love your husband very much. Let that love get you through.
I wish you all the best

xxxxx
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I agree that having an elderly parent going through illness is a difficult thing and I am sorry for what you are experiencing yourself. And I strongly believe that these type of situations, while challenging, can be so much smoother when the bulk of the work doesn't fall on one person or couple only.

I could take a day with my husband and do something different with him but lately, when he comes home he is so drained, that he has no energy left for us or for me. Even our conversations are now most about his mom. And since she refuses all other help, she forces herself upon her son and he feels that this is his role to take care of her.

She may not have long to live and I know it is going to hurt when she will leave us however, I have no energy or desire to help her go through this stage of her life. Some people think it is a selfish behavior but for me, it is a survival on. Since she moved close to us and my husband is giving her all of his extra time and attention, I gained 15 pounds and I know that deep down inside, there is a little depression. I am fighting it and I must say that I feel so much better when I put myself first.

Thank you so much for sharing your feedback. I truly appreciate it.
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CindyRella2022, something just dawn on me, we need to rethink this.

In the majority of cases where the mother-in-law needs someone to help her, it is usually the daughter-in-law who finds herself doing ALL that work. Be thankful you are not in that situation. Whew !!

I would see what chores hubby needs help with around your own house and you do some for him, and let him know you did because sometimes spouses are blind to what we actually do :) See how he reacts. Hope it is positive.

And later down the road, if you should need such help with age related issues, you know that hubby has been well trained to handle it all.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
At the end, we all try to make sense of a difficult situation. I always wanted the best for my mother in law, and wishing her well in everything. It's just that her behavior and her clinging to my husband has created so many difficulties in our lives, I wish that she would have had the elegance to keep a distance and let us live our lives. I am already helping around our own house, on the things that he normally does, I do go the extra mile and he appreciates it. For me, it is so difficult to see him getting drained. I wish there was a way for him to understand that he needs to take care of himself first. And I feel l need to do the same thing for myself. I believe that everything will find a perfect ending. I thank you for your message, it is truly appreciated.
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I hear what everyone is saying. But at the same time, they’re not actively dying.

My MIl for instance has an aggressive form of non Hodgkins, diagnosed at s4. Every week we would hear about how she was allegedly dying but she’s still here. And so if fil, two head operations, one heart op, and a bowel resection. SO could have insisted on living there two years now, which would have long since ended our relationship.

Instead, he told them that they needed more help. Which they’re getting. He certainly wouldn’t be over there cutting her hair or nails in any case.
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Beatty Mar 2022
Yes *timeframe* is a BIG factor.

I have seen friends leave their work/life/family to support end stage conditions. Short timeframe - no regrets.

But my LOs that need toe nails cut have significant ongoing mobility & health issues - varying in shades of life limiting but nothing terminal. Could be 5, 10, 15 years.

Different kettle of fish (or feet).

Add in DH's mob with potential for a growing spectrum of life limiting/mobility/cognitive care recipients.. whoa, another whole ocean of fish! (feet)

I'd be a full-time podiatry worker!

(Now there's a job opportunity.. oh wait Podiatrists already exist 😁)
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I agree with Lea here. Since you're here asking for advice, I am going to assume that your intention is to try and save your marriage. If your husband has been behaving like this as long as you say, not only will an ultimatum at this point be futile, but could very well come back to bite you, should hubby choose you: because if he chooses you, once his mom passes away, he will be consumed by guilt, which will likely morph into resentment towards you. Then the only difference in your relationship as it stands now will be that MIL will be coming between the two of you after she's gone, rather that while she's still here.

Now, by no means am I suggesting you continue to be a DIL doormat while MIL is still among us. If I were in your position, I think I might have a conversation with my husband to this effect: "OK, hon, I understand how very much you believe that it is your responsibility to take care of your mom, to the exclusion of some of your other responsibilities, and I won't try and insult your intelligence by pretending that there weren't times that I very much resented this; that there were times when, whether or not this was your intent, I felt like you were choosing her well-being over mine. But I also understand that she is nearing the end of her life, and I will try to be more supportive about your decisions to take care of her. I will make that attempt out of concern for YOUR well-being as much as - and in some cases more than - hers. But there are things I am just NOT personally willing to do... "(and then you give him your list) "but I will help you find someone who will." (and in this case I am thinking bathing/dressing/toileting - things a mom might not be comfortable with her son doing for her, but would be comfortable with her DIL - you - doing).

If you still need a vacation, then there is nothing wrong about going by yourself or with some friend(s). While my husband and I love to travel together, we also go places without each other, because we each have interests that don't appeal to the other, and that's ok. They are not mutually exclusive of each other. So go on a little jaunt without hubby, and then plan one with him once MIL has passed away.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
It is like walking on eggs but it's also a moment where I, myself realize that she is nearing the end of her life. For some reason, I was under the impression that with ESRD, people can still live a long life even without dialysis. I may be wrong on the topic. I feel like I need a break to renew myself, especially now that I know what is coming. I will have to be strong for him. Thank you so much for your message and advice, I truly appreciate it.
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Well, at THIS juncture, with the MIL having a 15 gfr and refusing dialysis, she doesn't have much longer left to live. So to give DH ultimatums NOW is a waste of energy, in my opinion. The time has come & gone for you to have done that. It's too late now, in other words; the relationship she has with her son is abnormal, to say the least, but it's THEIR relationship and you're not going to change it at this late date. Let him continue doing what he's been doing b/c if he doesn't, he'll wind up hating himself forever. If he goes on vacation with you, let's say, and doesn't cater to mom, and she dies, he'll be wracked with grief for life. Not worth it.

Now, if she was not THIS sick, my advice would be totally different. But with things as they are, I would stick around for DH, be there for him AND for your MIL now. Get a house cleaning service to come into to clean her house though, b/c ya gotta draw the line SOMEWHERE, and physically killing yourself scrubbing floors is over the top. Be 'the good wife & daughter in law' now that the end is near and be supportive and loving for both of them (not that you haven't in the past), it's just that NOW is a critical time where they both need your strength & support. Don't take a vacation alone, b/c where's the fun in that anyway? If you need an escape from all the stress that's going on, check into a spa hotel for a few days; get the works; massages, hair/nails/facial/saunas, all they have to offer, including room service. That will relax you and recharge your batteries for what lies ahead with the end-of-life process. DH will need you; it's hard to go thru this w/o a loving spouse; I just lost my mother, so I know I would have fallen apart w/o my DH next to me the whole time.

Look into getting MILs doctor to write an order for a hospice evaluation for her, if this hasn't happened already. She can either go into a hospice home or get them to come into her home to care for her. Beware, however, that they will only come in for short periods of time and not daily until she is actively dying. It will be on you and DH or caregivers that you HIRE to care for the woman personally. She can go into a Skilled Nursing Facility, but, she'd have to agree to it, and so would DH. Your best bet may be to get her and DH to agree to hiring 24/7 caregivers to come into the home; explain to DH that neither one of you are QUALIFIED to care for end of life RENAL FAILURE and unless he wants her to die in the hospital, then this is the best avenue to take: in home CGs with hospice coming in as an extra layer of support and to administer comfort meds as needed; hospital bed/supplies, all paid for by Medicare. DH has to prepare for the end now; as the 'good son', he has to do the 'right thing' for his mother, and trying to care for her all alone isn't the 'right thing'. See if you can get that through to him now, so you can formulate a care plan moving forward and don't have to deal with the situation on an emergency basis!!!

I realize your MIL does not 'want' strangers in her home; but DH is going to have to tell her that you & he are not equipped/qualified to care for her at THIS level of illness, and that caregivers must be brought in or she must go into Skilled Nursing for daily care. He can't manage a mile long list of demands from her, either........he's got to see that a compromise MUST be reached here. If not, then I guess you have no other alternative BUT to stay OUT of the picture while he runs himself ragged. Come back into the fray when she's literally on her death bed with a week or less to live; then you can be his rock. I doubt he's doing all this b/c he 'doesn't love or respect you'......it's to do with his 'guilt' that mother installed in him and feelings of obligation that's too late to change. Sad but true.

Wishing you the best of luck with a difficult and draining situation.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
My mother is law is also incontinent. One day, my husband asked me that since she refuses home care and when she reaches the end of life, if I would be willing to help clean her while we hire nurse to take care of her. I say yes, I will help her. So he knows that I will be here for him and for her, in case of extreme situation. In reading your message, I do realize that the end might come closer than I previously thought. So there will be a moment where she will have no other choice than to accept the home care help. I want to be here for my husband in this difficult time, so as you said, I might have to be a little bit more patient. Thank you so much for your wisdom. I truly appreciate your message.
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First... THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT! YOU ARE NOT THE BAD GUY... HE IS!
Your husband has abandoned his marriage vows! This is HIS choice, not yours. You've done nothing wrong but coddle him when he doesn't deserve it!
I'm going to now refer "mommy" as the "other woman" in this marriage, because that's what she is! She's a home wrecker in her own special way and she is using your husband for whatever she can get. Just as a gold digger does.
Don't wait another dark day in your precious life!
Take your FAIR share of the money and open an account of your own that he DOES NOT have access to. He WILL use it for the other woman believe me!
After your new account has been established, tell him you are booking the usual month long vacation (using his share of the money cause he owes it to you!)
It's now his choice to decide to go on vacation or stay with the other woman. If he goes, he has to make all arrangements and take the other woman to wherever she is staying or have hired help in place when it's time to leave, because you are going on leave on the date with or without him. ( no waiting on an extra bit of time. Let him struggle because you are finally putting yourself in control.)
You are NOT to do any more favors or help him in any way! That means no sex, massages etc!
If he decides to go, great! Perhaps he will have a chance while on vacation to realize how far down her rabbit hole she has taken him.
If he chooses to stay with this other woman, even after vacation, then you've got 2 options. 1. Cancel vacation and get your own place with the money and move out, change your phone# and don't tell him your new address. or 2, tell him you are going alone on the month vacation since he refuses to leave the other woman's side. He will be forced to cook, clean 2 houses, yard work, cater to the other woman etc. Believe me when i say, life will be VERY hard for him without you while you are on some sunny beach soaking up the rays or doing whatever you feel inclined to do. This time is for him to decide which woman it's going to be... you or her. It gives him a second chance of time to either hire full time help for his mom with HER funds or place her into assisted living also her funding.
Make it very clear that if at the least hired help is not in place at the end of your vacation, you will not return home and that you WILL be filing for a divorce because you've been down this dead end path before and you're not going down it again.
If he chooses the other woman, then you got your answer. Let him fend fit himself ...fix his own meals, clean up and do his own laundry.. ya know a continuation of when you were on vacation.
File for your divorce. If he thinks he's got problems now, just wait! He'll perhaps need to sell the house to get your share of equity, then he will be forced to live with said other woman.
Once divorce is settled, you are free to go and do whatever your heart desires.
Meanwhile, he has chosen to be the other woman's slave so he gets to do what his heart desires. It's a win win win for all 3 of you in this marriage !
After other woman passes, he'll find you and come running back with flowers, gifts, apologies and promises of doing better because he realizes how much he misses you, loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you.
That's when you simply tell him, he made it very clear when given both ultimatums where his loyalties lie and you're not nor will ever be his top priority. Simply say you're not interested, please place flowers on other woman's grave or give them to someone else who might really care because you no longer do. Smile at him tell him you wish him the best always and close and LOCK the door on him. Never will he take advantage of you again. If you don't grow a strong backbone, you'll be here again asking for more advice.
I wish you the best of luck with your unfaithful husband. Many hugs to you because you deserve it!
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Isthisrealyreal Mar 2022
Since when is sex a favor?
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Hi Cindy,

I saw your comments on walking on eggshells. That is a very tough situation in a marriage.

Understand this is really a husband situation as he refuses to outsource things even though there is the money to hire caregivers.

Let him go solo on the 600 mile trip with Mom. You do your own thing.

Reconnect with friends. Reconnect with neighbors. Do things with your kids.
Houses of worship have classes and groups. Connect with others there.

Step way back. Let husband do what he is going to do (you can't change him).

Take that solo vacation.

Life is about change and growth. Marriage is about change and growth.

Prioritize yourself. Step way back.

I'd hire a once a month cleaning service for MIL and stop cleaning MIL's house.

It could be husband moves in with MIL for the last 6 months or so of MIL's life. Be prepared for that and keep living your life.
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CindyRella2022 Mar 2022
I'd hire a once a month cleaning service for MIL too but she refuses any external help. Really it is so ridiculous, and guess who ends up cleaning her house now that I have stopped? Yep.... Hubby! She wants him to act like her husband and he is doing everything she asks him to. On one hand, if it was to help her every now and then, I would understand and I would gladly participate but the way she goes about it, making all kinds of demands, I simply can't. I believe that if my husband could realize the manipulation, then it would improve our relationship. Thank you so much for your feedback. I appreciate it.
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