When is it time to take over your parents finances?

Most utilities have a service for seniors by which another person can be notified when a bill is overdue. I would encourage you to sign up for this. Are you certain that the folks who showed up were actually from the utilities and not scam artists?

Sadly, your mom is spending her money unwisely. She may have vascular dementia. Has she been evaluated for that?

Your mom's utility bill and phone bill needs to be on auto-pay from the bank on-line with you getting the bill via e-mail.

I hope you have durable POA for her. It is time to take over the finances for she is not competent from what you say in your story.

From everything you stated, it is definitely time for you to take over her finances or supervise her when she pays her bills.

The most sensible thing to do is start paying the bills yourself. Getting the mail away from her would be a battle so the best thing to do is have the basic bills taken directly out of the bank account. I think a phone call or online that can be set up. Or write the checks and have her sign them. Since you live there at the same address as she does, you’re paying the household expenses.

My mother kept her own books for her business and household bills so when she got behind (like your mom) on the basic bills that was a big red flag. Then she started HIDING the mail. She became paranoid and hostile as well. So the bills are what got my attention first.

You've got to put a stop to buying crap off the TV. Can you use the feature on the TV that blocks certain channels? Also if there are credit cards confiscate them, pay them off and cut them up. Save one for emergencies. The one with the lowest interest rate. Set up a new checking account with a limited amount of money in it, keep her out of the main accounts, those are for her care and needs.

If your mom is friendly and not difficult to care for, it’s a little early for assisted living. Unless you’re worn out with things then shop around for a nice ALF. Take your time looking. Also getting POA would help you legally set up the financial processes that will come up. Do that first. Then after all your paperwork is in place (POA; will; etc) whatever comes up you’ll have the legal right to deal with it as your mom’s representative.

Lastly, a stay for mom in Geri Psych so her mental faculties can be assessed. A psychiatrist, social worker and nurses talk to her, administer tests and give your mom a diagnosis.

Good luck. How you present these changes is important. Elders can really dig their heals in and refuse to cooperate.

Thank you all for your input. After she saw the spreadsheet i made of all the charities she said she didn't realize there were so many and would stop. She also promised me no more PCH. So i will give her the benefit of the doubt. I will find out if she keeps her word or not. But what i'm on the fence about is that even though there are eighty charities she doesn' t pay them all every month. She spends a little under $200 a month. ($5-10 donations) and anywhere from $60 to $200 a month for Publishers Clearing House. When my father was alive she wouldnt dare buy from PCH. and their donations for the entire year would be under $200. My father worked very hard and he and my mom didn't go anywhere when he retired. He was always investing and saving money for the trust. (laughing) All these stories are going through my mind know that i could tell. I could write a book about my family and our lives. It would be a interesting read. Rock n roll Fame, manslaughter, . Sorry got off track. My point is that my mom never got to spend when Dad was alive. Maybe she's making up for it now? Its seems to be the only little joy she has.
I'm so on the fence with taking away her last piece of independence. It's weighing heavy on me. please keep posting your answers and Thank you.

KrazyKat-
I'm in your boat. Mom donates to everything under the sun. I did the same thing, added them up on a spreadsheet. That was an eye opener. They are fine on money and it is a write off at the end of the year, for now. But I make it a point to tell them how much/how many they have spent on donations. She isn't often late on bills, but didn't happen to notice a missing tax form for taxes last year(oh, what FUN! Amended returns and cpa's and it isn't over yet!). She picks through the mail and grabs bills. And mostly ignores /hides the rest so I spend a lot of time on opening/sorting mail when tax time rolls around. I try to sneak in and grab old mail once a week if I can. They are very stubborn and refuse most help. And desperately do not want to be a burden.

If it gives your mom joy to give, ask her to pick one or two charities and decide on a monthly amount? Like her own allowance for Giving. But only after the bills are paid.

Then you can tell the rest of them to get lost. I remember there being an article recently about getting off the charity begging mail lists.
Hope that helps.
Sparkles

I think you need to take over  - don't let her have the check book any more.

just same as if she was driving and having accidents. its not safe any more.

each time she writes a check, those places may be sending her name and address to Another place. 

lot of organizations  asking for money are not always legit. and she may need that money down the road.

so just pick one good organization.
plus she's  just not able to do it correctly anymore. over drawing on her account etc./not paying bills on time

I know its hard to do these things(take over). but its better you do it NOW. before something bad happens. she is not going to start being MORE careful.

oh I know how it feels. when I first took over my moms check book it was pretty confusing. she was paying bills twice. and subtracting and adding all wrong.

I can relate ... using a POA, I take care of almost everything for my mother using accounts that I've told her about but that she doesn't remember. I did leave her with a small checking account (which is linked to an account I control) and she is responsible for a few bills (which I check online to make sure she has paid). When her checking account balance exceeds the amount we "agreed" on, I let her know it's time for me to transfer some to "the account I use to pay her rent and credit card".

Fortunately, she's agreed to send me the donation forms/envelopes that she wants paid, which usually works, although she handles her Sunday church-donation-checks. Tried sending out letters to get off the many charity lists, but that proved worthless ... now they're mailing requests to BOTH addresses!

Most of her smail-mail comes to my address and I use online notifications extensively. Basically, I let her handle some things, but take care of most of it myself. It seems to be working, at least for now.

For my mother I would handle all the bills and let her sign the checks- took the worries off of her and she still had some control. She had been always worried about the bills so I had the insurance (house/car/umbrella) all billed at one time (around Christmas) so that worry disappeared. That also took care of the small charity checks she was writing. The junk she was buying (Haband?) took a bit more work to cut off. A lot of stuff she bought had to be repackaged and mailed back to them. We had some of the main bills delivered to my sister (next door to her) so important bills didn't get lost. It took time to transition but she felt better because it took away some of her worries.

KrazyKat's recommendation for vascular dementia is a good one, but I don't know that there is any specific test for that. My (second) husband had several what he called "senses of impending doom" followed by loss of consciousness that in retrospect were TIAs. And TIAs are hard to diagnose as they usually leave no physical trail. He did take 7 hrs of neuropsychology testing that ruled out Alzheimer's and "suggested" vascular dementia. Eventually, he had a major stroke that killed him at age 71, but by that time I was handling all of his finances online. Now my first and ex-husband is in memory care in a nursing home and my two children by him are constantly arguing about his expenses and care. I guess I will be next!

I am lucky that my mom recognized her difficulty with the checking account and asked me to help. At first I wrote checks and mom signed them, then she just gave me the checkbook. Still, I had to be sure I got all the bills. I began by having every possible bill sent electronically to an email account in her name that I controlled, and where that wasn't possible I had the bill sent to my address. Then, I had a cash-back credit card account set up in her name, with a card to me in my name and I controlled that account. Any payment that could be set up automatically - insurance, for example - went to that credit card. At first I used a list of all possible bills to be sure I was both receiving and paying the bills, then I got a good handle on everything and didn't need the list. I made sure mom had some cash for incidentals.

KrazyKat...It is time that you take over in paying the bills. If you don't already get a Power Of Attorney, get one. If you get the mail throw away all solicitations, but if mom continues to get the mail then start having the mail delivered to a PO Box and you can pick it up once or twice a week and sort out the junk mail from real bills; throw away the junk mail when your mother is sleeping. Take all blank checks away from her and hide them in your room (if you are living with her, or take them to your home). Don't know what PCH is but with your POA you can cancel her credit card, so nothing goes threw. Stop including her in paying of bills, (she won't remember), my mother who has Alzheimer's would read and reread the bills and was unable to comprehend what she was reading. My brother said our mom would throw a fit when my brother tried to take the bill away from her to pay and this would go on for over 4 hours every month. My brother with the POA had the address changed so my mothers bills were sent directly to him to pay, but if you are living there that is impossible, that is where a PO Box would work for you. You are able to get the mail without your mom and can sort out what is bills and junk mail. You can also talk to her doctor and see if they can write a letter that she should not live by herself, drive and handle legal correspondence (did this with my mom), with this she can not pay bills if she should say anything, just don't tell her you talked with her doctor and you requested the letter this will upset her. Just tell her that her doctor must of thought this was best for her due to her health issues. However, don't do this until you have the POA since this is a legal document.

Do it with & ask her to teach you how to do it as well as she does [a bit of flattery never hurts] - then you can monitor it as she does it - you make a list of household expenses for yourself & tick them off as she does it - then you can ask as her 'student' when the water bill gets paid [even note on a calendar] so you can tell when something is missed

Those bank fees are terrible - maybe another bank? or can she have a senior account with no or lower fees - talk to the bank & tell them you thinking of moving the accounts elsewhere

Why isn't your mom on automatic payment for utilities - ask your mom if she has ever thought about it as it should be a free service then at least you would know that the essentials are paid on time - have her get a separate account for this & transfer a set amount each month from her other one to cover them with $100.00 'just in case' balance so if a bill higher than normal then it would be covered

Start monitoring the mail & edit some of the dicier items into the garbage before she sees them - so when you go for the mail always wear a sweater & put the ones you don't want her to see in the waist of your pants at the back where the sweater will hide them then bring the mail to her that you want her to see - or even leave some in the box & retrieve them later

80 charities is too much - pare them down to notable ones as some are scams with as high as 95% going to 'administrative costs' which means lucrative salaries for the CEO - search the web for something on these scams & maybe let her see it - while some are scams some others are fronts for less than stellar people [I'd tell her the Mafia] who are getting rich on others' money

I have experience with multiple elderly relatives having these issues. The last sentence you wrote seems to indicate you are thinking of it as an either/or situation, but have you considered there's a middle ground? Instead of completely taking over, perhaps you could sit down with her and work together on her finances. You may be completely taking over the finances, but if you you involve her with the work, she will feel more respected. I asked one relative "Do you think Bill Gates is writing a check for his electric bill? No, he has someone do that for him." This is how I got them to buy into me being their assistant. You have written a lot of things and I will try to address each one. With regard to the late payment of bills, have you considered setting up automatic payment arrangements for all of these bills. If you do that you won't have people at your door ready to shut off the water, but the bill will still arrive and she can look at it all she wants. With regard to the charities, I have seen this problem before. Have you shown her the spreadsheet, so that she can see what she's actually doing. Perhaps if you sit down with her and ask her to pick out her top five charities that she can support. Then ask her to figure out how much she wants to give each of them for the year. Make a chart and post it where she can see it. The chart reinforces the idea that these are the charities you're supporting and not everyone who calls you asking for money. It might help if the donations are made on a monthly basis with you helping her write the checks. Then you put mark on the chart that the donation was made. When you do this you're involving her in the decisions as to what is happening with her money, but at the same time you're providing guidance. With regard to Publishers Clearing House I can tell you that they are the bane of my life. Every month I would go over with one relative how much she spent at Publishers Clearing House. I would ask her what she acquired for that $100 she spent. After a year in which she had spent a total of $1, 200, I called Publishers Clearing House to discuss the matter. When I told them how much she had spent with them in the past year and how she was buying things that she already had etc, they agreed to stop filling her orders. What they said was that when she placed an order, they would not mail the product to her. If she called them and said Hey where's my order then they would know that she was in enough of her right mind that they should continue to do business with her. This worked, since she never received any additional items. I had a problem with another relative who was ordering things from QVC and HSN. Everything she ordered, and I mean everything, she wanted to send back. In this case the relative was able to walk and had access to transportation services. Because they were able to do these things, I told them if you want to send it back do it yourself. I could tell they were motivated to get their money back rather than just keep the item so this worked. I think the underlying problem you have here is that your relative is bored. If they don't have other interesting things to occupy their time then they watch QVC and order things or obsessively go through the mail and send money to every charity that calls. If you can find some ways to occupy her time, some of the problems may go away. Is there a senior center or Adult Day Care where she can go to enjoy herself? In general it helps to try to come up with multiple possible solutions to a problem, and then just keep trying things until you find what works. I know it's hard when you're in the midst of it. Please be sure to take care of yourself first. I recommend that you read the answers to other people's questions, not just the answers you get to your question. There is a wealth of information on this site please take advantage of it.

Run away if you can, this situation is a bottomless pit.

To get started for immediate control start with a new LOCKING mailbox with one key. Sort thru the mail. Trash the junk mail and the 80 charities asking for money. You will keep the bills and "help" her write the checks and pay the bills. State its to help you just in case. On the TV lock out the shopping channels . Share the desk or home office so you can see the bills. That's a start. Legal is the next step but it takes time. You need to take control now. Think outside the box. It's a long road. Good Luck.

I’m sorry, but it is long past time for you to begin helping you Mom with her finances. You may have to start out “helping”, and gradually take over for her. You may find that your Mother will forget all about finances, bills, etc., after you relieve her of the responsibility.

You will find it very helpful, if not absolutely necessary, for your name to be added to the bank accounts. You should probably have an elder law attorney draw up a durable power of attorney for your mother. This will become necessary sooner or later.

Good luck,

Mike

It's time.  Sit down with her and pay her bills, let her line everything out and work together on it.  Find a place to collect her bills for her to help her organize, you can do that pretty easy, buy mom a cute desk organizer, that'll help too.  Good luck.

I had the same nightmare with PCH. Settled with them and told them to remove her from their records. You need a durable POA. You should change credit cards or accounts that are withdrawing from her. Doubtful many will answer the phone. You may have to physically take her to SS to have the account number changed. Do not run away unless you want her to end up penniless. I had to change 4 credit cards so that companies who would not reason with me could not continue to charge her. Your name as POA should be on both a credit card and bank account. I would not let her have access to a checkbook. This ordeal is very common and incredibly frustrating and time consuming but truly necessary. I hope you can act as quickly as possible.

To all who have answered.
I've read all your answers and want to thank you ALL for responding. This is such a cool social platform and such a blessing.


Just so you all know I have intercepted her mail and some days i feel so guilty. Then i think "Isn't it a federal offence to do this?" "Yes" but i'm doing it for good reasons. My mom is not mobile enough to sit at a desk with me . The only mobility she has it to walk 14 feet with her walker to the next room to use her port a pot. Most days she sits in the lazyboy recliner from 10am to 9pm. Unfortunately this puts her right next to the front door where the mailbox is. So when she asks me to get the mail she can tell that im up to something if i take to long doing it. I mean we are talking 5 feet away from her. Although many times i try to be sneeky and go to the garage, open the garage door and sneek my way past these windows right behind her where the mailbox is.. I slowly, quietly take the mail out closing the lid with the utmost care. and tip toe back to the garage, sort thru the mail and then tip toe back to the mail box and put it back.
Then go back in the house thru the garage. within a few minutes shell ask me for the mail and i open the door grab it and hand it to her. This works nicely but my mom is not stupid. she'll notice that every time the mailman comes i go to the garage and put two and two together. So i don't do it all the time. And of course the days i decide not to do it is when its loaded with people asking for money. I live in California where its blazing hot so it wouldn't be logical for me to wear a sweater as Moecam suggested. But it was a good idea. I have tucked them down my pants on occasion. lol

My memory is not the sharpest these days and im only 55. So anything added to my plate is a challange. And yes i have sticky notes and to do list all over this place but i still am to busy and forget to look at them. lol

My mom is Irish and as i mentioned was sharp as a tack. Yes, shes changed but shes still aware most of the time.

I have started going thru her account showing her how to balance it and where she went wrong. She forgets sometimes but not all the time thats the weird thing.

She cant remember to hook back up her feeding tube when she returns from the potty but she will remember its street sweeping day and i better move my car off the street. Hell i never remember street sweeping day but she does.

One time i opened my mouth and shared my opinion about her writing so many checks and she piped up and said mind my own business., So i just shut up after that.

I love my mom and i want the rest of her days to be peaceful and happy not stressful. But i dont want to regret not taking control after the fact. this is a hard decision and i'll need to put much thought into it.

but your answers are helping in me making this decision. I'm just not quite there yet.

She can no longer keep track of what she has paid.
Be sure to take the mail to the post office for her.
Tell her there have been reports of thieves removing checks from mail boxes, and that is why the water bill was unpaid. You will offer to take her checks direct to the post office, you are going anyway.

The utilities and phone companies have 3rd party notifications to family when a bill goes unpaid. Sign up.

Take her to the SS office, let them know she almost had her utilities turned off. They will assign you as Rep-payee and you will at least be fully in charge of those funds. She will not be able to have access any longer, you will be required to spend her money on her only, and keep it separate from yours.

It's time to step in, and protect her. The forgetting to pay bills, & donations to numerous charities, not living within her means are big red flags! Look past the thought of removing her independence-but rather saving her from herself. She's losing the ability to make good choices..do whatever you can to make things better for her long term welfare & finances.

I'll answer as follows:
#1 If they're living on a low income and gave away their last $5 to the FOP's umpteenth phone call.
#2 When they've hired a bookkeeper to "balance" their checkbook through their town's elder case worker and the person's allowed to be off $859 FOR NINE MONTHS and the elder says "she'll balance on month # 10.
#3 When they had a pension plan that was not ACTIVATED by the elder; thus they never received the monthly annuity payment that they should have.
#4 When they don't know what they're doing with life insurance policies (term or whole).
#5 When they're enabling their children or grandchildren by giving away their last dime.
#6 When they didn't know that it was not their fault their credit card payment that they mailed in got lost in the mail and THEY DID NOT CALL THE CC COMPANY TO GET AN ADJUSTMENT FOR THE LATE FEE THEY INCURRED.

ALL BY #5 ARE TRUE EVENTS.

I became guardian that is expensive I have to show accounting to court and to Soc. Security. I have had to say I will do the right thing. I talk to my mom i let her know she has money and bills are paid. But she read things over and over could not understand about the letters or bills. Tax time was so anxiety producing.Did not understand what had to be done. What we did to pay the taxes and she became very anxious. Now any mistake is my fault. Not hers. She likes blaming so it is perfect. She can blame me and she can tell anyone she wants to I make the decision. Phone calls wanting money so upsetting to her. " Call my daughter" and they hang up. Her confusion and anxiety about taxes is what alerted me to a change in her cognitive thinking. She had always been so good with accounting and money.

KrazyKat: How did you make out? I thought my list covered your concerns. If I did not, please let me know. TIA.

Update:
Today i am taking back 3 books that she ordered because she already has them. She ordered them last year. So off i go to the post office again and she has to pay for shipping ""again""

Today is her birthday tho. She is 87. Happy Birthday Mom.
P.s. I think shes already broken her promise and has mail a couple donations. not 100 % sure tho.

p.s.

A couple days ago she was watching PBS. She always watches that station. So I say to her "Mom, why dont you donate to PBS, I mean you watch them all the time instead of donating to all these places and people you dont even know anything about" Mom looks at me with a straight face and says. "I dont dontate to anyone!" lmao really? she must of been joking when she said that.. hard to tell tho. Shes a little stinker i tell you.

I cannot emphasize enough to everyone dealing with elders to get a general power of attorney if it is not too late. Go to a lawyer. With this document, you are legally allowed to do anything your mom is allowed to do. You won't be committing a federal offense if you have the mail sent to your house or cancel a credit card. Please keep good records of your actions as power of attorney. This is required by law and you will avoid accusations by other relatives. Well, they can accuse, but you have the receipts, etc to show you are not stealing.

I agree that you need to have Power of Attorney now, if you don’t already. You can even do that on line and then get the proper signatures. I agree with Toadhall’s suggestion of having your mothers mail sent to you. Then remove her check book and credit cards. You’ll be saving her money and some frustration. We did that for my MIL and my mom. We did tell them it was time for us to help out more so she didn’t have to worry about bills. It’s also easy to get the bills on auto pay. Also, if she likes shopping, have her write down what it is she wants or who she wants to give to and tell her you’ll take care of it for her. If it’s something you know she needs or would enjoy, take care of it for her. If not, she may not remember she ever ask for it.
Is her checking account in her name and yours? That will help simplify things now and after she’s gone. It’s the best way to help make her life much easier, not to mention your life as well. My mother was not an agreeable person, but was so relieved when I said I’d gladly take care of her bills for her so she didn’t have to worry about them.
I hope this helps and I know first hand that it really helps you to vent. This site has many good listeners, encouragers and problem solving suggestions.
God bless and guide you!

Her high point of the day is getting the mail from the post man.
You have to be firm but do it in love - and protect her from herself.
open up a p o box at the post office in both of your names so all the mail will go to the post office first.
fill out a forwarding address form to forward all her mail to the post office box. that way you can sort through the mail before your mom gets it and weed out all the charity/solicitations before you give her the mail.

you MUST take over the check book. Make sure you are on the signature card so you can write the checks. balance the check book once a week.

have a mini filing cabinet with file folders labeled with the names of all the monthly bills so you can file them as they are being paid

get a box with a lock on it, put the check book in it and tell her that you and her will take it out on bill paying day


advise her that you will have a once a week bill paying session with her so she can see that all her utilities are being paid and how much is left to spend on misc fun things.
any items she wants from PCH she will have to show you first what she is interested in and you will write the check and mail it in for her. She must be 100 percent sure she wants that item as YOU will not return it to the company if she changes her mind

go through the 80 charities that she sent all these checks to and have her pick out 5 charities she wants to donate to.

You need to get your life back. Right now you are running to the post office to return things, calling up utility companies about past due bills, talking to banks about over drafts, dipping into the Family trust to balance checkbook - yikes!!!

God Bless you